Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

DNS wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:23 am ...
Vegan 75%
Vegetarian ... 17%
...

Oops! ... I always thought these two are identical .

https://www.naturespath.com/en-us/blog/ ... ifference/

:thanks:
𝓑𝓾𝓭𝓭𝓱𝓪 𝓗𝓪𝓭 𝓤𝓷𝓮𝓺𝓾𝓲𝓿𝓸𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓓𝓮𝓬𝓵𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽
  • Iᴅᴇᴀ ᴏꜰ Sᴏᴜʟ ɪs Oᴜᴛᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴀɴ Uᴛᴛᴇʀʟʏ Fᴏᴏʟɪsʜ Vɪᴇᴡ
    V. Nanananda

𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
  • Nᴏ sᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀs ᴀ Sᴇʟғ, Sᴏᴜʟ, Eɢᴏ, Sᴘɪʀɪᴛ, ᴏʀ Āᴛᴍᴀɴ
    V. Buddhādasa
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Gwi
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Re: Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

Post by Gwi »

Sam Vara wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:03 pm
Gwi wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:33 am
asahi wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:55 am There was Jains already an example of practising ahimsa . Why then Buddha didnt wants His teachings include non harming diets ?
:roll:
Because vegetarianism is a practice of self-torture.
Malai kofta followed by Ben & Jerry's Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough is self torture?

We can eat vegetables,
But don't refuse meat
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
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bodom
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Re: Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

Post by bodom »

Gwi wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:33 am
asahi wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:55 am There was Jains already an example of practising ahimsa . Why then Buddha didnt wants His teachings include non harming diets ?
:roll:
Because vegetarianism is a practice of self-torture.

Read: MN 51
Can quote the passage you are referring to? I have not found anywhere in this sutta where there Buddha says vegetarianism is a form of self torture.

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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Sam Vara
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Re: Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

Post by Sam Vara »

bodom wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:21 pm
Gwi wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:33 am
asahi wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:55 am There was Jains already an example of practising ahimsa . Why then Buddha didnt wants His teachings include non harming diets ?
:roll:
Because vegetarianism is a practice of self-torture.

Read: MN 51
Can quote the passage you are referring to? I have not found anywhere in this sutta where there Buddha says vegetarianism is a form of self torture.

:anjali:
Me neither. There is a passage on self-torture, but it does not say anything about vegetarianism.
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Sam Vara
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Re: Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

Post by Sam Vara »

Gwi wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:21 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:03 pm
Gwi wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:33 am

Because vegetarianism is a practice of self-torture.
Malai kofta followed by Ben & Jerry's Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough is self torture?

We can eat vegetables,
But don't refuse meat
I will refuse meat, thanks. I've been vegan since 1984, and have no plans to change.
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Gwi
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Re: Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

Post by Gwi »

Sam Vara wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:24 pm
Gwi wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:21 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:03 pm

Malai kofta followed by Ben & Jerry's Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough is self torture?

We can eat vegetables,
But don't refuse meat
I will refuse meat, thanks. I've been vegan since 1984, and have no plans to change.

No one is forcing
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
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Gwi
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Re: Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

Post by Gwi »

bodom wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:21 pm
Gwi wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:33 am
asahi wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:55 am There was Jains already an example of practising ahimsa . Why then Buddha didnt wants His teachings include non harming diets ?
:roll:
Because vegetarianism is a practice of self-torture.

Read: MN 51
Can quote the passage you are referring to? I have not found anywhere in this sutta where there Buddha says vegetarianism is a form of self torture.

:anjali:



The Buddha said this:

“And what person mortifies themselves, committed to the practice of mortifying themselves? It’s when someone goes naked, ignoring conventions. They lick their hands, and don’t come or wait when asked. They don’t consent to food brought to them, or food prepared for them, or an invitation for a meal. They don’t receive anything from a pot or bowl; or from someone who keeps sheep, or who has a weapon or a shovel in their home; or where a couple is eating; or where there is a woman who is pregnant, breastfeeding, or who has a man in her home; or where there’s a dog waiting or flies buzzing. They accept no fish or meat or liquor or wine, and drink no beer. They go to just one house for alms, taking just one mouthful, or two houses and two mouthfuls, up to seven houses and seven mouthfuls. They feed on one saucer a day, two saucers a day, up to seven saucers a day. They eat once a day, once every second day, up to once a week, and so on, even up to once a fortnight. They live committed to the practice of eating food at set intervals.

They eat herbs, millet, wild rice, poor rice, water lettuce, rice bran, scum from boiling rice, sesame flour, grass, or cow dung. They survive on forest roots and fruits, or eating fallen fruit.

They wear robes of sunn hemp, mixed hemp, corpse-wrapping cloth, rags, lodh tree bark, antelope hide (whole or in strips), kusa grass, bark, wood-chips, human hair, horse-tail hair, or owls’ wings. They tear out their hair and beard, committed to this practice. They constantly stand, refusing seats. They squat, committed to the endeavor of squatting. They lie on a mat of thorns, making a mat of thorns their bed. They’re committed to the practice of immersion in water three times a day, including the evening. And so they live committed to practicing these various ways of mortifying and tormenting the body. This is called a person who mortifies themselves, being committed to the practice of mortifying themselves." (MN 51)
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
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bodom
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Re: Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

Post by bodom »

Yes I've read it. No where does it say that vegetarianism is a form of self Torture.

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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Sam Vara
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Re: Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

Post by Sam Vara »

Gwi wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:37 pm
bodom wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:21 pm
Gwi wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:33 am

Because vegetarianism is a practice of self-torture.

Read: MN 51
Can quote the passage you are referring to? I have not found anywhere in this sutta where there Buddha says vegetarianism is a form of self torture.

:anjali:



The Buddha said this:

“And what person mortifies themselves, committed to the practice of mortifying themselves? It’s when someone goes naked, ignoring conventions. They lick their hands, and don’t come or wait when asked. They don’t consent to food brought to them, or food prepared for them, or an invitation for a meal. They don’t receive anything from a pot or bowl; or from someone who keeps sheep, or who has a weapon or a shovel in their home; or where a couple is eating; or where there is a woman who is pregnant, breastfeeding, or who has a man in her home; or where there’s a dog waiting or flies buzzing. They accept no fish or meat or liquor or wine, and drink no beer. They go to just one house for alms, taking just one mouthful, or two houses and two mouthfuls, up to seven houses and seven mouthfuls. They feed on one saucer a day, two saucers a day, up to seven saucers a day. They eat once a day, once every second day, up to once a week, and so on, even up to once a fortnight. They live committed to the practice of eating food at set intervals.

They eat herbs, millet, wild rice, poor rice, water lettuce, rice bran, scum from boiling rice, sesame flour, grass, or cow dung. They survive on forest roots and fruits, or eating fallen fruit.

They wear robes of sunn hemp, mixed hemp, corpse-wrapping cloth, rags, lodh tree bark, antelope hide (whole or in strips), kusa grass, bark, wood-chips, human hair, horse-tail hair, or owls’ wings. They tear out their hair and beard, committed to this practice. They constantly stand, refusing seats. They squat, committed to the endeavor of squatting. They lie on a mat of thorns, making a mat of thorns their bed. They’re committed to the practice of immersion in water three times a day, including the evening. And so they live committed to practicing these various ways of mortifying and tormenting the body. This is called a person who mortifies themselves, being committed to the practice of mortifying themselves." (MN 51)
There is nothing there about vegetarianism. The foods listed are poor quality, that's all. As per my and DNS's posts above, one could be vegetarian and committed to sensual delight.
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Gwi
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Re: Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

Post by Gwi »

bodom wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:48 pm Yes I've read it. No where does it say that vegetarianism is a form of self Torture.

:anjali:
... They accept no fish or meat ...

... They eat herbs ...
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
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bodom
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Re: Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

Post by bodom »

Gwi wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:01 pm
bodom wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:48 pm Yes I've read it. No where does it say that vegetarianism is a form of self Torture.

:anjali:
... They accept no fish or meat ...

... They eat herbs ...
Yes those practices and the others that the Buddha has listed were being undertaken with wrong view. The Buddha is talking about the torture of one self through self mortification. If vegetarianism was self torture the Buddha would have forbid it and laid it down in the Vinaya. He gave us choices.

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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Gwi
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Re: Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

Post by Gwi »

bodom wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:08 pm
Gwi wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:01 pm
bodom wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:48 pm Yes I've read it. No where does it say that vegetarianism is a form of self Torture.

:anjali:
... They accept no fish or meat ...

... They eat herbs ...
Yes those practices and the others that the Buddha has listed were being undertaken with wrong view. The Buddha is talking about the torture of one self through self mortification. If vegetarianism was self torture the Buddha would have forbid it and laid it down in the Vinaya.

:anjali:
I following what Buddhå Gotamå said.



Did The Buddhå forbid this in the vinayå:
"making a mat of thorns their bed", etc.
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
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bodom
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Re: Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

Post by bodom »

Gwi wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:14 pm
bodom wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:08 pm
Gwi wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:01 pm

... They accept no fish or meat ...

... They eat herbs ...
Yes those practices and the others that the Buddha has listed were being undertaken with wrong view. The Buddha is talking about the torture of one self through self mortification. If vegetarianism was self torture the Buddha would have forbid it and laid it down in the Vinaya.

:anjali:
I following what Buddhå Gotamå said...
As do I and I am not personally a vegetarian. A vegetarian may be torturing themselves if they were starving to death and had no other food options besides meat and still refused to eat it.

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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Gwi
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Re: Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

Post by Gwi »

So ...

someone who making a mat of thorns
Their bed may be torturing themselves
If they were The thorns pierce to death
and had no other seat options besides
Thorns and still refuses to seat it??


I following Buddhå Gotamå
:anjali:
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
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bodom
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Re: Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

Post by bodom »

Gwi wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:36 pm So ...

someone who making a mat of thorns
Their bed may be torturing themselves
If they were The thorns pierce to death
and had no other seat options besides
Thorns and still refuses to seat it??


I following Buddhå Gotamå
:anjali:
The topic is about vegetarianism not mats of thorns. As I have said I am not personally a vegetarian and the Buddha certainly didn't forbid it or say it was self torture so I will let those who are speak for themselves. The Buddha has already spoken for me.

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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