I following MN 51, i wont
Make a mat from a bed of thorns.
(The practice of self-torture)
I accept meal n fish.
Love the animals, because they are very delicious.
bpallister wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:48 pm Veganism is not self-torture these days. Maybe 20 or 30 years ago, but not now
eating meat is not blameworthyhttps://legacy.suttacentral.net/en/snp2.2 wrote:Taking life, torture, mutilation too,
binding, stealing, telling lies, and fraud;
deceit, adultery, and studying crooked views:
this is carrion-stench, not the eating of meat.
Those people of desires and pleasures unrestrained,
greedy for tastes with impurity mixed in,
of nihilistic views, unstable, hard to train:
this is carrion-stench, not the eating of meat.
The rough, the cruel, backbiters and betrayers,
those void of compassion, extremely arrogant,
the miserly, to others never giving anything:
this is carrion-stench, not the eating of meat.
Who’s angry, obstinate, hostile and vain,
deceitful, envious, a boastful person too,
full of oneself, with the wicked intimate:
this is carrion-stench, not the eating of meat.
Those of evil ways, defaulters on debts,
imposters, slanderers, deceitful in their dealings,
vile men who commit evil deeds in this world:
this is carrion-stench, not the eating of meat.
Those people unrestrained for living beings here,
taking others’ property, on injury intent,
immoral, harsh and cruel, for others no respect:
this is carrion-stench, not the eating of meat.
Towards others greedy or hateful—they attack them,
ever on misdemeanours bent,
they go to darkness after death;
such beings as this fall headlong into Hell:
this is carrion-stench, not the eating of meat.
Not from fish and flesh tasting and not by nudity,
not by the plucking of head-hairs,
nor growing of matted locks,
not by the smearing of the ashes of the dead,
not wearing abrasive skins,
not following sacrificial fires,
or worldly austerities for gaining immortality,
nor mantras, nor offerings,
oblations, seasons’ services
can purify a mortal still overcome by doubt.
Who lives with sense-streams guarded, well-aware,
in the Dharma firm, enjoying gently rectitude,
beyond attachments gone, all dukkha left behind,
that wise one’s unsullied by the seen and the heard.
false equivalencyGwi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:49 ambpallister wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:48 pm Veganism is not self-torture these days. Maybe 20 or 30 years ago, but not now
Lie on a mat of thorns is not self-torture these days.
Maybe 20 or 30 years ago, but not now.
MN 51 is a proof.
self-torture not because of torment.
Not always.
Actually, given the density of the thorns, it could be not painful, and not producing blood. Anyway, this is false usage too. The passage in MN 51 refers to people begging alms for food. Do you beg alms for food? Do most lay people do that? No. Lay people have choices.Gwi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:49 ambpallister wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:48 pm Veganism is not self-torture these days. Maybe 20 or 30 years ago, but not now
Lie on a mat of thorns is not self-torture these days.
Maybe 20 or 30 years ago, but not now.
MN 51 is a proof.
self-torture not because of torment.
Not always.
Try to improve your post by quoting from the sutta. It is both inconsiderate and lazy to not write a clear post.
AN volume 2: 198 (8)
Yes, broadly interpreted, it recommends veganism. Specifically interpreted, at least don't serve meat if you're going to dana to monks.bpallister wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:46 am "In any case, as a monk, it's risky to accept meat offered specially for monks, given that we might not know if the lay people actually gone to the market to purposely get the animals killed. How often is MN 55 cited in dhamma talks to prevent such practise? Given that meat cannot be eaten if suspected that it's killed for me, I wouldn't want to eat meat offered specially for monks."
Seems like semantics, as it's all killed for "someone" and killing is wrong.
Yet, let's go back to the days of the Buddha, often there comes a meal invitation for the next day, and the donor invited 500 monks along with the Buddha. So to prepare such a large meal, they obviously didn't had supermarkets with ready made meat, if they have to put meat in the menu, it involves a lot of killing. Thus by logical analysis, it can be deduced that such invitations are vegan/vegetarian meals.“Jīvaka, anyone who slaughters a living creature specially for the Realized One or the Realized One’s disciple makes much bad karma for five reasons.
When they say: ‘Go, fetch that living creature,’ this is the first reason.
When that living creature experiences pain and sadness as it’s led along by a collar, this is the second reason.
When they say: ‘Go, slaughter that living creature,’ this is the third reason.
When that living creature experiences pain and sadness as it’s being slaughtered, this is the fourth reason.
When they provide the Realized One or the Realized One’s disciple with unallowable food, this is the fifth reason.
Anyone who slaughters a living creature specially for the Realized One or the Realized One’s disciple makes much bad karma for five reasons.”