Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

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asahi
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Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

Post by asahi »

There was Jains already an example of practising ahimsa . Why then Buddha didnt wants His teachings include non harming diets ?
:roll:
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bpallister
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Re: Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

Post by bpallister »

He loved steak too much
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Nicolas
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Re: Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

Post by Nicolas »

Consuming animal products is not inherently unwholesome in and of itself. That activity can be done without any unwholesomeness in the mind, though it usually relies on previous unwholesome action (the killing part).

On the topic: Snp 2.2, MN 55

See also a related Dhamma Wheel topic: the great vegetarian debate
Ontheway
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Re: Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

Post by Ontheway »

In those days, being a monk, one need to beg for almsfood and will not get to choose what to eat.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
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DNS
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Re: Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

Post by DNS »

asahi wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:55 am There was Jains already an example of practising ahimsa . Why then Buddha didnt wants His teachings include non harming diets ?
:roll:
Not all Jains are vegans. The observant ones don't eat any meat and also don't eat eggs, but they do eat dairy (milk, cheese).

One could eat animal products without harming the animal, if it is produced organically on free range farms, but the diet causing the least harm is vegan, imo.

It could be that the Buddha didn't want to impose and make it too difficult on the lay people to provide the meals for the monks. Note, the 3 fold rule does say that killing is wrong, but suggests that there is somewhat of a separation from the killing if the meat was not produced specifically for the meal.
https://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=3_fold_rule
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DNS
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Re: Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

Post by DNS »

In an article I wrote, I tallied up the meals of the Buddha and found that he ate:

Vegan 75%
Vegetarian (with animal products, cheese, eggs) 17%
Meat meals 8%

https://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?ti ... _of_Buddha

Although definitely not vegan, he still ate vegan and vegetarian much more frequently than the typical person today.
Cause_and_Effect
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Re: Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

Post by Cause_and_Effect »

DNS wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:23 am In an article I wrote, I tallied up the meals of the Buddha and found that he ate:

Vegan 75%
Vegetarian (with animal products, cheese, eggs) 17%
Meat meals 8%

https://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?ti ... _of_Buddha

Although definitely not vegan, he still ate vegan and vegetarian much more frequently than the typical person today.
Have never heard that before. If true that he was 75% vegan thats the strongest endorsement of the diet I've ever heard.

I know he was supposed to have gotten ill before he died through eating either tainted pork or truffles.
"Therein monks, that Dimension should be known wherein the eye ceases and the perception of forms fades away...the ear... the nose...the tongue... the body ceases and the perception of touch fades away...

That Dimension should be known wherein mentality ceases and the perception of mind-objects fades away.
That Dimension should be known; that Dimension should be known."


(S. IV. 98) - The Dimension beyond the All
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DNS
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Re: Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

Post by DNS »

Cause_and_Effect wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:27 am
DNS wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:23 am In an article I wrote, I tallied up the meals of the Buddha and found that he ate:

Vegan 75%
Vegetarian (with animal products, cheese, eggs) 17%
Meat meals 8%

https://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?ti ... _of_Buddha

Although definitely not vegan, he still ate vegan and vegetarian much more frequently than the typical person today.
Have never heard that before. If true that he was 75% vegan thats the strongest endorsement of the diet I've ever heard.
It depends on your perspective. That could be one way to look at it.

An omnivore could respond that "since the Buddha ate any meat, even a small amount, suggests that it is perfectly acceptable and okay to eat meat."
Inedible
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Re: Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

Post by Inedible »

asahi wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:55 am There was Jains already an example of practicing ahimsa. Why then Buddha didn't want His teachings to include non harming diets?
:roll:
When you are on Devadatta's side you should think about it some more.
un8-
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Re: Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

Post by un8- »

DNS wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:23 am

Although definitely not vegan, he still ate vegan and vegetarian much more frequently than the typical person today.

I doubt this, and here's why

Man evolved on mostly carnivore diet, see here

- https://journals.plos.org/plosone/artic ... ne.0028689
- https://www.mpg.de/12728073/neandertals ... itely-meat

Humans outgrew the neanderthal population by specializing in fishing

Now as the first link states, with the growth of the homo genus, there was over-hunting and big game became scarce, elephant populations reduced, so the homo genus had to adapt to small game.

As the homo genus continued to grow, food became more and more scarce, which lead to the agricultural revolution, animal husbandry, and farming.

Now if you look at anthropological studies, as meat consumption continued to decrease, carbohydrate and plant consumption continued to increase.

You can even see this from the 1700 to 1900s, American soldiers used to eat Pemmican, which is like a nutrient dense beef jerky. Over time Pemmican was reduced and replaced with carbs, plant food and increased sugar.

Now today the average person actually eats mostly plant food. Take for example a McDonald's meal, it's mostly carbs, the drink, the fries, the wheat buns, and a tiny beef patty.

Compared to our ancestors we're practically vegetarians. People were eating more meat 2500 years ago, compared to today.

Mongolians who are Buddhist still eat traditionally though, semi-nsfw


There is only one battle that could be won, and that is the battle against the 3 poisons. Any other battle is a guaranteed loss because you're going to die either way.
asahi
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Re: Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

Post by asahi »

I suppose ahimsa in Jains is a way of life in which a person voluntarily involves abstaining him/herself from exploiting or cruelty against animals . Buddha however appears to be not so concern in such ahimsa way of life . The only issue or flaw of meat eating would be that it seems not in accordance with not killing precept . Probably Buddha are not interested in saving the whole world .
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Gwi
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Re: Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

Post by Gwi »

asahi wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:55 am There was Jains already an example of practising ahimsa . Why then Buddha didnt wants His teachings include non harming diets ?
:roll:
Because vegetarianism is a practice of self-torture.

Read: MN 51
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
Bundokji
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Re: Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

Post by Bundokji »

Maybe because veganism does not really reduce harm when compared with vegetarianism.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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Sam Vara
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Re: Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

Post by Sam Vara »

Gwi wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:33 am
asahi wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:55 am There was Jains already an example of practising ahimsa . Why then Buddha didnt wants His teachings include non harming diets ?
:roll:
Because vegetarianism is a practice of self-torture.
Malai kofta followed by Ben & Jerry's Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough is self torture?
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DNS
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Re: Why Buddha didnt go vegan ?

Post by DNS »

Sam Vara wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:03 pm
Gwi wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:33 am
asahi wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:55 am There was Jains already an example of practising ahimsa . Why then Buddha didnt wants His teachings include non harming diets ?
:roll:
Because vegetarianism is a practice of self-torture.
Malai kofta followed by Ben & Jerry's Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough is self torture?
I was thinking the same thing. :tongue:

Anyone who thinks vegan diets are torture, clearly hasn't tried it enough. Stir fry tofu with veggies, samosas, pakoras, the list goes on and on. It's even too delicious sometimes, that we have to be careful not to put on the weight. Many omnivores think vegans only eat salad and steamed vegetables. Far from it! I don't remember the last time I ate steamed vegetables.

At one potluck dinner many years ago, all of the omnivores were running to eat the vegan deli (subway style) sandwiches from Capriottis. Most couldn't believe it was vegan, saying it tasted similar to meat, only better.
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