10 kind of wives

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Gwi
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Re: 10 kind of wives

Post by Gwi »

bpallister wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:38 pm which kind of wife do you guys prefer out of the 10 choices ?
3, 7, and maybe 6 too.
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
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DooDoot
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Re: 10 kind of wives

Post by DooDoot »

Gwi wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:29 pm
(Breaking the third precept)
1. the bought wife ---> bit*h

(Breaking the third precept)
2. the wife by choice ---> samenleven


3. the wife through property ---> Concubine

(Breaking the third precept)
4. the wife through clothes ---> samenleven (this person used to be a tramp [VA])

5. the wife through the bowl-of-water ritual ---> samenleven (Only during wartime [when the law dies]) it can be a wife from (1) free people marry (2) slave

6. the wife through removing the head pad ---> Has been divorced by a judge (in court)

7. the slave wife ---> handmaid

(Breaking the third precept)
8. the servant wife ---> Mistress

9. the captured wife ---> become handmaid because (the country) lost the war (with another country)

(Breaking the third precept)
10. the momentary wife ---> sham marriage (bit*h)
The above post is disgusting, called certain women "bitch" and "tramp". :|
The bought wife:
Dhanakkītā nāma
after buying her with money, they live together.
dhanena kiṇitvā vāseti.

The wife by choice:
Chandavāsinī nāma
being dear to each other, they live together.
piyo piyaṁ vāseti.

The wife through property:
Bhogavāsinī nāma
after giving wealth, they live together.
bhogaṁ datvā vāseti.

The wife through clothes:
Paṭavāsinī nāma
after giving clothes, they live together.
paṭaṁ datvā vāseti.

The wife through the bowl-of-water ritual:
Odapattakinī nāma
after touching a bowl of water, they live together.
udakapattaṁ āmasitvā vāseti.

The wife through removing the head pad:
Obhaṭacumbaṭā nāma
after taking down the head pad, they live together.
cumbaṭaṁ oropetvā vāseti.

The slave wife:
Dāsī nāma
she is a slave and a wife.
dāsī ceva hoti bhariyā ca.

The servant wife:
Kammakārī nāma
she is a servant and a wife.
kammakārī ceva hoti bhariyā ca.

The captured wife:
Dhajāhaṭā nāma
one brought back as a captive is what is meant.
karamarānītā vuccati.

The momentary wife:
Muhuttikā nāma
a wife for one occasion is what is meant.
taṅkhaṇikā vuccati.

https://suttacentral.net/pli-tv-bu-vb-ss5/en/brahmali
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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DooDoot
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Re: 10 kind of wives

Post by DooDoot »

Pulsar wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:40 pm the servant husband,
Some enjoy reading commentaries of disciples, which the Lord Buddha admonished in the Ani Sutta, which the Lord Buddha called the destruction of his Dhamma.

As for the Lord Buddha & husbands, it was said He said the following about a Dhamma Husband:
DN 31 wrote:A husband should serve :bow: his wife as the western quarter in five ways:

Pañcahi kho, gahapatiputta, ṭhānehi sāmikena pacchimā disā bhariyā paccupaṭṭhātabbā—

by treating her with honor, by not looking down on her :heart: , by not being unfaithful, by relinquishing authority to her :bow: , and by presenting her with adornments.

sammānanāya anavamānanāya anaticariyāya issariyavossaggena alaṅkārānuppadānena.

https://suttacentral.net/dn31/en/sujato
It is said the Lord Buddha also said the following about boys or men who still have not found a good wife:
SN 37.2 wrote:“Mendicants, when a man has five factors he is extremely undesirable to a female.

“Pañcahi, bhikkhave, aṅgehi samannāgato puriso ekantaamanāpo hoti mātugāmassa.

What five?

Katamehi pañcahi?

He’s not attractive :x , not wealthy, not ethical :roll: ; he is idle :weep: , and he doesn’t beget children.

Na ca rūpavā hoti, na ca bhogavā hoti, na ca sīlavā hoti, alaso ca hoti, pajañcassa na labhati—

https://suttacentral.net/sn37.2/en/sujato
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: 10 kind of wives

Post by DooDoot »

DiamondNgXZ wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:38 am In Buddhism, there's no issue with premarital sex...
Very common new-age idea that i cannot find any support for in the suttas. The suttas say:

1. Duty of parents is to facilitate the marriage of their child (DN 31)

2. Having sex with girl/woman protect by parents is sexual misconduct.

Combining the two teachings above, per the Commentary, the girl is protected by parents until she is married into a good home.

Therefore, there appears no teaching of sex before marriage in the Suttas. :|
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
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Gwi
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Re: 10 kind of wives

Post by Gwi »

DooDoot wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:07 am
Gwi wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:29 pm
(Breaking the third precept)
1. the bought wife ---> bit*h

(Breaking the third precept)
2. the wife by choice ---> samenleven


3. the wife through property ---> Concubine

(Breaking the third precept)
4. the wife through clothes ---> samenleven (this person used to be a tramp [VA])

5. the wife through the bowl-of-water ritual ---> samenleven (Only during wartime [when the law dies]) it can be a wife from (1) free people marry (2) slave

6. the wife through removing the head pad ---> Has been divorced by a judge (in court)

7. the slave wife ---> handmaid

(Breaking the third precept)
8. the servant wife ---> Mistress

9. the captured wife ---> become handmaid because (the country) lost the war (with another country)

(Breaking the third precept)
10. the momentary wife ---> sham marriage (bit*h)
The above post is disgusting, called certain women "bitch" and "tramp". :|
The bought wife:
Dhanakkītā nāma
after buying her with money, they live together.
dhanena kiṇitvā vāseti.

The wife by choice:
Chandavāsinī nāma
being dear to each other, they live together.
piyo piyaṁ vāseti.

The wife through property:
Bhogavāsinī nāma
after giving wealth, they live together.
bhogaṁ datvā vāseti.

The wife through clothes:
Paṭavāsinī nāma
after giving clothes, they live together.
paṭaṁ datvā vāseti.

The wife through the bowl-of-water ritual:
Odapattakinī nāma
after touching a bowl of water, they live together.
udakapattaṁ āmasitvā vāseti.

The wife through removing the head pad:
Obhaṭacumbaṭā nāma
after taking down the head pad, they live together.
cumbaṭaṁ oropetvā vāseti.

The slave wife:
Dāsī nāma
she is a slave and a wife.
dāsī ceva hoti bhariyā ca.

The servant wife:
Kammakārī nāma
she is a servant and a wife.
kammakārī ceva hoti bhariyā ca.

The captured wife:
Dhajāhaṭā nāma
one brought back as a captive is what is meant.
karamarānītā vuccati.

The momentary wife:
Muhuttikā nāma
a wife for one occasion is what is meant.
taṅkhaṇikā vuccati.

https://suttacentral.net/pli-tv-bu-vb-ss5/en/brahmali

Bit*h is what i said,

Vinaya Aṭṭhakathā (VA) said that "tramp",
For paṭaṁ datvā vāseti
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
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DooDoot
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Re: 10 kind of wives

Post by DooDoot »

Gwi wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:53 am Bit*h is what i said,
Tramp from Vinaya Aṭṭhakathā (VA)
Sorry but you should quote the VA, including the Pali.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
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Gwi
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Re: 10 kind of wives

Post by Gwi »

DooDoot wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:55 am
Gwi wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:53 am Bit*h is what i said,
Tramp from Vinaya Aṭṭhakathā (VA)
Sorry but you should quote the VA, including the Pali.
Ok
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
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DooDoot
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Re: 10 kind of wives

Post by DooDoot »

DiamondNgXZ wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:38 am In Buddhism, there's no issue with premarital sex, but responsibly, ideally, it's better with a relationship established rather than casual sex. There's of course the usual risk of STD, unwanted pregnancy, etc. And to avoid breaking 3rd precepts, ideally both sides are not married/ attached, or have consent of their partners if they are.
Ignoring the Buddha's rules i previously posted from DN 31 & AN 10.211, you appear to be saying the only potential harm from premarital sex is STDs & unwanted pregnancy. Is this true?
HAPPILY ACTIVE: Encouraging a 16-year-old daughter to enter into a sexual relationship is ludicrous! If wisdom were a requirement for being a parent, your mother might not have qualified. Premarital teenage sex causes an enormous amount of heartbreak, anguish and emotional trauma for many young women.

I’ve received thousands of responses from teenage girls over the years that indicated they were very sorry they became sexually active early in life, and very few responses from girls who were happy with having sexual relationships before they became adults. You may indeed be an exception, but you should understand your circumstances are quite rare.

I stand by my advice that teenage girls should avoid premarital sex. There is a time and place for them to become sexually active, but based on my vast experience and observation of the high school age range, these years are not the ones. Quite often, far more harm than good ensues for those that do not wait.

https://www.times-news.com/community/te ... dd9eb.html
:|
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: 10 kind of wives

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

Pulsar wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:40 pm ...
PS I do not understand what momentary wife means? can SDA pl. explain?
Hi,

To my surprise, that info and much more are found to be already inherently elaborated in that portion of the canon.
  • Sañcaritta—Bhikkhu Brahmali wrote:
    1. The bought wife:
      • after buying her with money, they live together.
    2. The wife by choice:
      • being dear to each other, they live together.
    3. The wife through property:
      • after giving wealth, they live together.
    4. The wife through clothes:
      • after giving clothes, they live together.
    5. The wife through the bowl-of-water ritual:
      • after touching a bowl of water, they live together.
    6. The wife through removing the head pad:
      • after taking down the head pad, they live together.
    7. The slave wife:
      • she is a slave and a wife.
    8. The servant wife:
      • she is a servant and a wife.
    9. The captured wife:
      • one brought back as a captive is what is meant.
    10. The momentary wife:
      • a wife for one occasion is what is meant.
    https://suttacentral.net/pli-tv-bu-vb-ss5/en/brahmali
:heart:
𝓑𝓾𝓭𝓭𝓱𝓪 𝓗𝓪𝓭 𝓤𝓷𝓮𝓺𝓾𝓲𝓿𝓸𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓓𝓮𝓬𝓵𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽
  • Iᴅᴇᴀ ᴏꜰ Sᴏᴜʟ ɪs Oᴜᴛᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴀɴ Uᴛᴛᴇʀʟʏ Fᴏᴏʟɪsʜ Vɪᴇᴡ
    V. Nanananda

𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
  • Nᴏ sᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀs ᴀ Sᴇʟғ, Sᴏᴜʟ, Eɢᴏ, Sᴘɪʀɪᴛ, ᴏʀ Āᴛᴍᴀɴ
    V. Buddhādasa
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Re: 10 kind of wives

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

Gwi wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:03 pm ..
Thank you so much 93×
...


You're welcome 93x :thumbsup:


btw, why 93x ? :thinking:
𝓑𝓾𝓭𝓭𝓱𝓪 𝓗𝓪𝓭 𝓤𝓷𝓮𝓺𝓾𝓲𝓿𝓸𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓓𝓮𝓬𝓵𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽
  • Iᴅᴇᴀ ᴏꜰ Sᴏᴜʟ ɪs Oᴜᴛᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴀɴ Uᴛᴛᴇʀʟʏ Fᴏᴏʟɪsʜ Vɪᴇᴡ
    V. Nanananda

𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
  • Nᴏ sᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀs ᴀ Sᴇʟғ, Sᴏᴜʟ, Eɢᴏ, Sᴘɪʀɪᴛ, ᴏʀ Āᴛᴍᴀɴ
    V. Buddhādasa
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Gwi
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Re: 10 kind of wives

Post by Gwi »

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:01 am
Gwi wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:03 pm ..
Thank you so much 93×
...


You're welcome 93x :thumbsup:


btw, why 93x ? :thinking:
Nevermind :thanks:
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
DiamondNgXZ
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Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:40 am

Re: 10 kind of wives

Post by DiamondNgXZ »

DooDoot wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:02 am
DiamondNgXZ wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:38 am In Buddhism, there's no issue with premarital sex, but responsibly, ideally, it's better with a relationship established rather than casual sex. There's of course the usual risk of STD, unwanted pregnancy, etc. And to avoid breaking 3rd precepts, ideally both sides are not married/ attached, or have consent of their partners if they are.
Ignoring the Buddha's rules i previously posted from DN 31 & AN 10.211, you appear to be saying the only potential harm from premarital sex is STDs & unwanted pregnancy. Is this true?
HAPPILY ACTIVE: Encouraging a 16-year-old daughter to enter into a sexual relationship is ludicrous! If wisdom were a requirement for being a parent, your mother might not have qualified. Premarital teenage sex causes an enormous amount of heartbreak, anguish and emotional trauma for many young women.

I’ve received thousands of responses from teenage girls over the years that indicated they were very sorry they became sexually active early in life, and very few responses from girls who were happy with having sexual relationships before they became adults. You may indeed be an exception, but you should understand your circumstances are quite rare.

I stand by my advice that teenage girls should avoid premarital sex. There is a time and place for them to become sexually active, but based on my vast experience and observation of the high school age range, these years are not the ones. Quite often, far more harm than good ensues for those that do not wait.

https://www.times-news.com/community/te ... dd9eb.html
:|
I missed out no underage sex, that's covered by protection by parents, guardians etc. I think no rape is covered under protection by law, and by herself consent.

In the case of Eastern societies, indeed, the girl maybe protected by parents even well into her thirties. In most Western societies (or at least my impression of it), I see the culture of parents letting their kids free to do what they want after 18 or 21. In that case, the girl is not really considered under protection of parents.

As for parents wanting to make sure that their kids get good spouses, it didn't state specifically that it needs to exclude sex before marriage, say between fiances. Nowadays, it's mainly practised via the kids bringing their potential spouse to meet the parents. It seems it's up to the individual families to decide if they wish to grant such permission of pre-marital sex. However, I agree that there's always a danger for pre-marital sex to involve the girl being dumped by the guy after an unwanted pregnancy, and the family of the girl has to bear the burden of helping the girl becoming a single mother. In that sense, I think it's justified for family members to judge the spouse and object if they find that the partner seems uncommitted and yet they wish to have sex.

Anyway, it's quite open to interpretation, I think Eastern societies standards may lean towards very conservative, Western ones may lean towards liberal sexual attitudes. There's room for interpretation for both sides. Heavily depends on the society they are in. Since this is the internet, it's good to be aware of the mixture of many different cultural influences, and to be clear on what's the text, how to interpret it and what's our cultural assumptions, background.
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DooDoot
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Re: 10 kind of wives

Post by DooDoot »

DiamondNgXZ wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:36 am I missed out no underage sex, that's covered by protection by parents, guardians etc. I think no rape is covered under protection by law, and by herself consent.
Sorry but you appear to be making things up. Underage sex is prohibited by secular law. Also, under Dhamma, a girl can marry at 15yo but under most secular law a girl cannot marry until 16yo or even 18yo.
DiamondNgXZ wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:36 am In most Western societies (or at least my impression of it), I see the culture of parents letting their kids free to do what they want after 18 or 21. In that case, the girl is not really considered under protection of parents.
Sorry but the above is irrelevant to the Dhamma. If the parents do not do their duty, that is bad kamma. If the children reap the results of that bad kamma, that is more bad kamma. Buddha-Dhamma has no relevance to culture.
DiamondNgXZ wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:36 am Nowadays, it's mainly practised via the kids bringing their potential spouse to meet the parents.
Sorry but the above is unrelated to Buddha-Dhamma.
DiamondNgXZ wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:36 am It seems it's up to the individual families to decide if they wish to grant such permission of pre-marital sex.
Sorry but its like saying its up to parents to allow their children to take drugs. Sorry but the above is unrelated to Buddha-Dhamma.

You see, I grew up in friend's home where we were allowed to take drugs, look at porno magazines & bring girls home and do whatever we wanted. All of this drugs & sex is bad kamma. IT IS HARMFUL.
DiamondNgXZ wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:36 am However, I agree that there's always a danger for pre-marital sex to involve the girl being dumped by the guy after an unwanted pregnancy, and the family of the girl has to bear the burden of helping the girl becoming a single mother. In that sense, I think it's justified for family members to judge the spouse and object if they find that the partner seems uncommitted and yet they wish to have sex.
Sorry but you simply appear to not understand the EMOTIONAL/PSYCHOLOGICAL/MENTAL HARM.
DiamondNgXZ wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:36 am Anyway, it's quite open to interpretation
Sorry, it is not open to interpretation because it is BAD KAMMA because it is MENTALLY HARMFUL.
DiamondNgXZ wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:36 am I think Eastern societies standards may lean towards very conservative, Western ones may lean towards liberal sexual attitudes.
Wrong. When I grew up, the most strict families were Greeks, who followed Greek Orthodox Christianity, like my father was Greek/Eastern Orthodox. That is why when I did evil things as teen, it was done in my friend's home. Western liberal attitudes are only 60 years old. The Buddha said in DN 31 a "liberal" is an evil dangerous companion.
DiamondNgXZ wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:36 am There's room for interpretation for both sides.
No. The Buddha taught strictly.
DiamondNgXZ wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:36 am Heavily depends on the society
No. Buddha-Dhamma does not depend on society or culture. It depends on what is PSYCHOLOGICALLY HARMFUL & NON-HARMFUL.
DiamondNgXZ wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:36 am Since this is the internet, it's good to be aware of the mixture of many different cultural influences, and to be clear on what's the text, how to interpret it and what's our cultural assumptions, background.
Irrelevant. In some cultures, honor killing is allowed; in some cultures, drug taking is allowed; in some cultures, telling lies is considered qualification for a job. Sorry but the five precepts do not related to culture of worldly societies.

In summary, if i have sex with a girl, she starts to like me, then i leave her, and she cries :weep: , even if she cries :weep: for only 10 seconds, that 10 seconds of crying :weep: is considered "HARM" :shock: in the Buddha's Dhamma.

While i do not consider it a badge of honor & find it most regrettable in respect to myself, i imagine you have never been in a sexual "relationship" with a woman.


:buddha1:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
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Gwi
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Re: 10 kind of wives

Post by Gwi »

DiamondNgXZ wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:36 am
DooDoot wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:02 am
DiamondNgXZ wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:38 am In Buddhism, there's no issue with premarital sex, but responsibly, ideally, it's better with a relationship established rather than casual sex. There's of course the usual risk of STD, unwanted pregnancy, etc. And to avoid breaking 3rd precepts, ideally both sides are not married/ attached, or have consent of their partners if they are.
Ignoring the Buddha's rules i previously posted from DN 31 & AN 10.211, you appear to be saying the only potential harm from premarital sex is STDs & unwanted pregnancy. Is this true?
HAPPILY ACTIVE: Encouraging a 16-year-old daughter to enter into a sexual relationship is ludicrous! If wisdom were a requirement for being a parent, your mother might not have qualified. Premarital teenage sex causes an enormous amount of heartbreak, anguish and emotional trauma for many young women.

I’ve received thousands of responses from teenage girls over the years that indicated they were very sorry they became sexually active early in life, and very few responses from girls who were happy with having sexual relationships before they became adults. You may indeed be an exception, but you should understand your circumstances are quite rare.

I stand by my advice that teenage girls should avoid premarital sex. There is a time and place for them to become sexually active, but based on my vast experience and observation of the high school age range, these years are not the ones. Quite often, far more harm than good ensues for those that do not wait.

https://www.times-news.com/community/te ... dd9eb.html
:|
I missed out no underage sex, that's covered by protection by parents, guardians etc. I think no rape is covered under protection by law, and by herself consent.

In the case of Eastern societies, indeed, the girl maybe protected by parents even well into her thirties. In most Western societies (or at least my impression of it), I see the culture of parents letting their kids free to do what they want after 18 or 21. In that case, the girl is not really considered under protection of parents.

As for parents wanting to make sure that their kids get good spouses, it didn't state specifically that it needs to exclude sex before marriage, say between fiances. Nowadays, it's mainly practised via the kids bringing their potential spouse to meet the parents. It seems it's up to the individual families to decide if they wish to grant such permission of pre-marital sex. However, I agree that there's always a danger for pre-marital sex to involve the girl being dumped by the guy after an unwanted pregnancy, and the family of the girl has to bear the burden of helping the girl becoming a single mother. In that sense, I think it's justified for family members to judge the spouse and object if they find that the partner seems uncommitted and yet they wish to have sex.

Anyway, it's quite open to interpretation, I think Eastern societies standards may lean towards very conservative, Western ones may lean towards liberal sexual attitudes. There's room for interpretation for both sides. Heavily depends on the society they are in. Since this is the internet, it's good to be aware of the mixture of many different cultural influences, and to be clear on what's the text, how to interpret it and what's our cultural assumptions, background.

pre-marital *** = breaking the third precept.

Not adultery, but fornication.
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
DiamondNgXZ
Posts: 390
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:40 am

Re: 10 kind of wives

Post by DiamondNgXZ »

Gwi wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:19 am
DiamondNgXZ wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:36 am
DooDoot wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:02 am Ignoring the Buddha's rules i previously posted from DN 31 & AN 10.211, you appear to be saying the only potential harm from premarital sex is STDs & unwanted pregnancy. Is this true?


:|
I missed out no underage sex, that's covered by protection by parents, guardians etc. I think no rape is covered under protection by law, and by herself consent.

In the case of Eastern societies, indeed, the girl maybe protected by parents even well into her thirties. In most Western societies (or at least my impression of it), I see the culture of parents letting their kids free to do what they want after 18 or 21. In that case, the girl is not really considered under protection of parents.

As for parents wanting to make sure that their kids get good spouses, it didn't state specifically that it needs to exclude sex before marriage, say between fiances. Nowadays, it's mainly practised via the kids bringing their potential spouse to meet the parents. It seems it's up to the individual families to decide if they wish to grant such permission of pre-marital sex. However, I agree that there's always a danger for pre-marital sex to involve the girl being dumped by the guy after an unwanted pregnancy, and the family of the girl has to bear the burden of helping the girl becoming a single mother. In that sense, I think it's justified for family members to judge the spouse and object if they find that the partner seems uncommitted and yet they wish to have sex.

Anyway, it's quite open to interpretation, I think Eastern societies standards may lean towards very conservative, Western ones may lean towards liberal sexual attitudes. There's room for interpretation for both sides. Heavily depends on the society they are in. Since this is the internet, it's good to be aware of the mixture of many different cultural influences, and to be clear on what's the text, how to interpret it and what's our cultural assumptions, background.

pre-marital *** = breaking the third precept.

Not adultery, but fornication.
https://sasanarakkha.org/2010/11/01/imp ... -virtuous/

You can download and read the 3rd precept section. I will quote some of it below:
This precept can be broken by oneself
only—no one can break it for another. It is
broken when the following four conditions
are all present:
1. The forbidden person.
2. Intention to have sexual intercourse
with the person.
The Third Precept: Refraining from sexual misconduct 41
3. Effort made in committing the sexual
act.
4. Consent to the sexual act.
The forbidden person can only refer to
the opposite sex and not to the same sex. For
males this person may be:
1. A female who is under protection,
such one who is unmarried, engaged
or protected by [law with threat of]
penalty.
2. A female who is married to or is
cohabiting with another male,
including a prostitute whose services
are currently contracted to another
client.
In the case of females, three categories of
males are forbidden:
1. For a married or cohabiting female,
any male other than her husband or
cohabitant respectively.
2. For an engaged female, any male
other than the one she is engaged to.
42 The Importance of Being Morally Virtuous
3. For a female protected by [law with
threat of] penalty, any male prohibited by the law.
In our modern context, “a female protected by [law with threat of] penalty” would
refer to any female decreed by law to be a forbidden sexual partner, e.g. a female convict, a
close female relative, someone under the age
of consent.
Details from the Pāli scriptures are shown
in Appendix C. Lists A and B are the categories of females forbidden to males. The list for
females is a bit more complicated: it shows
the categories of males forbidden to specific
categories of females
There's no explicit mention that sex is only allowed in marriage, between the couple. Read on and you'll find cases which totally makes you cringe, yet doesn't break the precept.
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