Is Tathagata a concept ?

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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Is Tathagata a concept ?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

cappuccino wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:55 pm
Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:53 pm What is common to your both sentences?
absence

Noted.

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𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Is Tathagata a concept ?

Post by Coëmgenu »

Absence of car is "not no car?" If the car's not there, it's not there. Maybe someone is suggesting that "the car" is merely elsewhere? Maybe, but it is not so in the case of the ātman. The absence of the ātman does not mean that the ātman is merely "elsewhere" to be found by the diligent seeker.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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cappuccino
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Re: Is Tathagata a concept ?

Post by cappuccino »

Coëmgenu wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:59 pm Absence of car is "not no car?"
empty car
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Is Tathagata a concept ?

Post by Coëmgenu »

cappuccino wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:02 pm
Coëmgenu wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:59 pm Absence of car is "not no car?"
empty car
Yes. Earlier, you said that in your opinion "empty of X" means "not no X."
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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cappuccino
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Re: Is Tathagata a concept ?

Post by cappuccino »

Coëmgenu wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:02 pm Yes. Earlier, you said that in your opinion "empty of X" means "not no X."
there is a car
sphairos
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Re: Is Tathagata a concept ?

Post by sphairos »

I don't think a concept is a concept.
How good and wonderful are your days,
How true are your ways?
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mjaviem
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Re: Is Tathagata a concept ?

Post by mjaviem »

cappuccino wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:58 pm he is not eternalist
You and him seem to believe in ever lasting essences that permanently endure eternally for ever,
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cappuccino
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Re: Is Tathagata a concept ?

Post by cappuccino »

mjaviem wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:05 pm
cappuccino wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:58 pm he is not eternalist
You and him seem to believe in ever lasting essences that permanently endure eternally for ever,
there is inconstancy

becoming different
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mjaviem
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Re: Is Tathagata a concept ?

Post by mjaviem »

cappuccino wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:27 pm there is inconstancy

becoming different
There are those who believe in an enduring essence

who believe in a self with a shell that' is always changing
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cappuccino
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Re: Is Tathagata a concept ?

Post by cappuccino »

mjaviem wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:33 pm There are those who believe in an enduring essence

who believe in a self
you seem to be an ordinary person


hence you have self belief
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mjaviem
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Re: Is Tathagata a concept ?

Post by mjaviem »

cappuccino wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:01 pm you seem to be an ordinary person


hence you have self belief
True, but we are not talking about my lack of true understanding.

We are talking about Thanissaro's beliefs and yours.
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cappuccino
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Re: Is Tathagata a concept ?

Post by cappuccino »

mjaviem wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:12 pm We are talking about Thanissaro's beliefs and yours.
His insight is generally not understood
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mjaviem
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Re: Is Tathagata a concept ?

Post by mjaviem »

cappuccino wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:13 pm
mjaviem wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:12 pm We are talking about Thanissaro's beliefs and yours.
His insight is generally not understood
His insight doesn't seem to have reached as deep as emptiness itself.
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cappuccino
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Re: Is Tathagata a concept ?

Post by cappuccino »

mjaviem wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:18 pm
Ananda Sutta

this requires a breakthrough of insight
asahi
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Re: Is Tathagata a concept ?

Post by asahi »

A concept is an abstract idea . Thus a concept of Tathagata is not the Tathagata .
Tathagata cannot be an idea . Before enlightenment Gotama was the five aggregates . After awakening He somehow was calles Tathagata , but A Tathagata cannot be either one or more or total of the 5 aggregates . But at the same time , Tathagata is not something else other than five aggregates . Then there is No Way to determine what Tathagata is !
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