In Okkantasamyutta section of Samyutta Nikaya, Buddha classified his followers into two groups: Saddhānusārī and Dhammānusārī.
Refer to the ten Suttas here:
https://suttacentral.net/sn25-cakkhuvagga
Which one is you?
I chose the second one.
Saddhānusārī or Dhammānusārī
Saddhānusārī or Dhammānusārī
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
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Re: Saddhānusārī or Dhammānusārī
I guess you should have included "Sotapanna" as one of the options, lol.
As for myself, I suppose I am a dhammanusari.
As for myself, I suppose I am a dhammanusari.
The world is swept away. It does not endure...
The world is without shelter, without protector...
The world is without ownership. One has to pass on, leaving everything behind...
The world is insufficient, insatiable, a slave to craving.
The world is without shelter, without protector...
The world is without ownership. One has to pass on, leaving everything behind...
The world is insufficient, insatiable, a slave to craving.
Re: Saddhānusārī or Dhammānusārī
According to the Suttas, both Saddhānusārī and Dhammānusārī will eventually gain Sotapatti Phala.rolling_boulder wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:40 pm I guess you should have included "Sotapanna" as one of the options, lol.
As for myself, I suppose I am a dhammanusari.
Just continue with practice.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
Re: Saddhānusārī or Dhammānusārī
So in non-Theravāda, AFAIK, a dharmānusārin is necessarily a stream-entrant. Is there such a thing as a non-stream-entrant dhammānusārī in Theravāda?
The sutta linked in the OP seems to suggest that the dhammānusārī is a stream-entry "candidate." The four persons of the path get split into eight when they are divided between persons with fruition and persons with candidacy for fruition. Is this the case here?
The sutta linked in the OP seems to suggest that the dhammānusārī is a stream-entry "candidate." The four persons of the path get split into eight when they are divided between persons with fruition and persons with candidacy for fruition. Is this the case here?
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Re: Saddhānusārī or Dhammānusārī
The above sounds wrong. In the sutta quoted:
1. The faith follower has saddahati adhimuccati
2. The dhamma follower has paññāya mattaso nijjhānaṁ khamanti
3. The stream-enterer has pajānāti passati
The sutta is not about once-again-returners, non-returners & arahants therefore is not about all of the Buddha's followers.
Last edited by DooDoot on Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
Re: Saddhānusārī or Dhammānusārī
Both Saddhānusārī and Dhammānusārī are not Sotapanna yet. They still need to practice more.Coëmgenu wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:18 pm So in non-Theravāda, AFAIK, a dharmānusārin is necessarily a stream-entrant. Is there such a thing as a non-stream-entrant dhammānusārī in Theravāda?
The sutta linked in the OP seems to suggest that the dhammānusārī is a stream-entry "candidate." The four persons of the path get split into eight when they are divided between persons with fruition and persons with candidacy for fruition. Is this the case here?
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
Re: Saddhānusārī or Dhammānusārī
"Someone who understands and sees these principles [Saddhānusārī and Dhammānusārī] is called a stream-enterer, not liable to be reborn in the underworld, bound for awakening.”Ontheway wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:32 pm In Okkantasamyutta section of Samyutta Nikaya, Buddha classified his followers into two groups: Saddhānusārī and Dhammānusārī.
Refer to the ten Suttas here:
https://suttacentral.net/sn25-cakkhuvagga
Which one is you?
I chose the second one.
They r both Sotāpannås.
U know 2 Arahats? It is same case like this.
Saddhānusārī --> Sotāpannå
Dhammānusārī ---> Sotāpannå too
Want to become "Saddhānusārī"
means not a Sotāpannå.
Become Saddhānusārī = (become) Sotāpannå
The commenters say they are different
(with Sotāpannå), but not from Aṭṭhakathā.
Not fake, but wrong (wrong opinion)
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama
Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
Re: Saddhānusārī or Dhammānusārī
Fake translation. The Pali is:
avinipātadhammā
Evidence please?
Last edited by DooDoot on Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
Re: Saddhānusārī or Dhammānusārī
Ontheway wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:04 pmAccording to the Suttas, both Saddhānusārī and Dhammānusārī will eventually gain Sotapatti Phala.rolling_boulder wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:40 pm I guess you should have included "Sotapanna" as one of the options, lol.
As for myself, I suppose I am a dhammanusari.
Just continue with practice.
Sotapatti Maggå = He/she didn't realize his accomplishments
Sotapatti Phalå = (when) understand he/she is Sotāpannå
Sotapatti Maggå = if upāsakå/upāsikā, they can
Ded before (becomes) Sotapatti Phalå or they can know it
(Before ded to become Sotapatti Phalå).
Sotapatti Phalå = if bhikkhu, he "CANT DED", before
He knows he is Sotāpannå.
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama
Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
Re: Saddhānusārī or Dhammānusārī
Sounds strange. Evidence please? Thanks
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
Re: Saddhānusārī or Dhammānusārī
You misinterpret the Suttanta texts again.Gwi wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:03 am"Someone who understands and sees these principles [Saddhānusārī and Dhammānusārī] is called a stream-enterer, not liable to be reborn in the underworld, bound for awakening.”Ontheway wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:32 pm In Okkantasamyutta section of Samyutta Nikaya, Buddha classified his followers into two groups: Saddhānusārī and Dhammānusārī.
Refer to the ten Suttas here:
https://suttacentral.net/sn25-cakkhuvagga
Which one is you?
I chose the second one.
They r both Sotāpannås.
U know 2 Arahats? It is same case like this.
Saddhānusārī --> Sotāpannå
Dhammānusārī ---> Sotāpannå too
Want to become "Saddhānusārī"
means not a Sotāpannå.
Become Saddhānusārī = (become) Sotāpannå
The commenters say they are different
(with Sotāpannå), but not from Aṭṭhakathā.
Not fake, but wrong (wrong opinion)
"One with faith in the teachings on the six interior sense fields is called a “follower by faith”, while someone with conceptual understanding is called a “follower of the teachings”. But someone who sees them directly is called a stream-enterer."
https://suttacentral.net/sn25-cakkhuvagga
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
Re: Saddhānusārī or Dhammānusārī
Ontheway wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:26 am "One with faith in the teachings on the six interior sense fields is called a “follower by faith”, while someone with conceptual understanding is called a “follower of the teachings”. But someone who sees them directly is called a stream-enterer."
https://suttacentral.net/sn25-cakkhuvagga
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
Re: Saddhānusārī or Dhammānusārī
A tree that bears fruit, it must bear fruit.
But, when the tree is not yet fruitful, can you see the fruit?
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama
Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
Re: Saddhānusārī or Dhammānusārī
Ontheway wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:26 amYou misinterpret the Suttanta texts again.Gwi wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:03 am"Someone who understands and sees these principles [Saddhānusārī and Dhammānusārī] is called a stream-enterer, not liable to be reborn in the underworld, bound for awakening.”Ontheway wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:32 pm In Okkantasamyutta section of Samyutta Nikaya, Buddha classified his followers into two groups: Saddhānusārī and Dhammānusārī.
Refer to the ten Suttas here:
https://suttacentral.net/sn25-cakkhuvagga
Which one is you?
I chose the second one.
They r both Sotāpannås.
U know 2 Arahats? It is same case like this.
Saddhānusārī --> Sotāpannå
Dhammānusārī ---> Sotāpannå too
Want to become "Saddhānusārī"
means not a Sotāpannå.
Become Saddhānusārī = (become) Sotāpannå
The commenters say they are different
(with Sotāpannå), but not from Aṭṭhakathā.
Not fake, but wrong (wrong opinion)
"One with faith in the teachings on the six interior sense fields is called a “follower by faith”, while someone with conceptual understanding is called a “follower of the teachings”. But someone who sees them directly is called a stream-enterer."
https://suttacentral.net/sn25-cakkhuvagga
Read that Suttå again. I didnt see: "BUT" someone.
"Someone who understands and sees these principles [Saddhānusārī and Dhammānusārī] is called a stream-enterer, not liable to be reborn in the underworld, bound for awakening.”
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama
Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
Re: Saddhānusārī or Dhammānusārī
Sounds like Jesus & Christianity.
Jesus Curses a Fig Tree
The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. Then he said to the tree, “May no one ever eat fruit from you again.” And his disciples heard him say it.
Mark 11:12-25
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati