auto wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:08 pm
Ok, it comments same way what is written in standard 3rd jhana.
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Hence it is wrong to say that just the five kinds of sense-objects constitute sense-desires.
girls body is kāma is wrong to say because it misses a distinction.
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Yes, thanks for correcting that, I've fixed that page so it will show on the next site update that the girl's body is the object of kama and 5kg.
But I don't think you're catching my main point.
The point about that girl, is the sutta passage is explicitly using the terms kaya, rupa, and same words used for 9 cemetary stages.
So you can not substitute "personal experience" for kaya there, you can no substitute "vision" for "rupa". It's explicitly using kaya and rupa in the sense of the physical body made up of 4 elements.
The point of that kaya research page is to show that the Buddha frequently uses those terms rupa, kaya, mano, citta, to clearly differentiate mind from body, and you (Sujato) can't start changing the dictionary and plug in your biased views on jhana whenever you want, it makes the suttas incoherent.
The KN Pe passage I pointed you to, was not to check 3rd jhana and see what they're interpretation is, you're supposed to look at all 4 jhanas and see that they explicitly designate piti and sukha as bodily and/or mental. Point being the BUddha, and commentators, were carefully distinguishing between mind and body for various jhana factors, and you can't have a rogue translator just start plugging whatever metaphorical value they want for kaya, rupa, etc.