Overindulgence in Dhamma Talks

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Post Reply
User avatar
ddeck
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:26 am

Overindulgence in Dhamma Talks

Post by ddeck »

I often find myself trying to replace my cycle of craving for entertainment with Dhamma talks (and this forum...). I do believe that to an extent, this is in line with what the buddha taught. From MN 20:
Just as a skilled carpenter or his apprentice would use a small peg to knock out, drive out, and pull out a large one; in the same way, if evil, unskillful thoughts — imbued with desire, aversion, or delusion — arise in a monk while he is referring to and attending to a particular theme, he should attend to another theme, apart from that one, connected with what is skillful.
Though I find this to be somewhat in line, I cant help but feel that at many times this is my mind avoiding formal practice. I'm sure others here struggle with this. I've found that listening to talks from pretty blunt no-nonsense teachers like Thanissaro Bhikku and Luang Por Chah helps in keeping me motivated to practice. Any other thoughts about this or personal experiences?
SarathW
Posts: 21234
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Overindulgence in Dhamma Talks

Post by SarathW »

Yes, I do listen to a lot of Dhamma talk.
The only problem now I have is when I listen to many Dhamma talks that I find monks making errors or preach wrong Dhamma.
Then the aversion arising in me. If I try to correct the mistake some monks do not like it.
To be respectful,[13] humble, contented, and grateful; and to listen to the Dhamma on due occasions[14] — this is the greatest blessing.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .nara.html

If you have the right mental attitude, listening to Dhamma is a practice of the path.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
un8-
Posts: 747
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2021 6:49 am

Re: Overindulgence in Dhamma Talks

Post by un8- »

ddeck wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:44 pm Any other thoughts about this or personal experiences?
Just start mediating more and save the dhamma talks for the evening after you're done home chores.
There is only one battle that could be won, and that is the battle against the 3 poisons. Any other battle is a guaranteed loss because you're going to die either way.
User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 19943
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: Aotearoa, New Zealand

Re: Overindulgence in Dhamma Talks

Post by mikenz66 »

Hi ddeck:
ddeck wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:44 pm I often find myself trying to replace my cycle of craving for entertainment with Dhamma talks (and this forum...)....
You might enjoy Bhikkhu Sujato's essay Youse are listening to too many Dhamma talks
I think this is the key point:
When you listen, really listen. Get into the space and focus 100%. Don’t just let the talk “wash over you”: that’s called “not paying attention”. Actively focus and reflect on the talk, and remind yourself of key points. That’s how you remember.
Similarly with Forums. I would stongly advise reading material that is deeper and more organised, and not using Forums as as primary source of information. Forums can be informative, and point out interesting things, but you need to follow up those things in depth, not just collect a bunch of soundbites.

:heart:
Mike
User avatar
SDC
Posts: 9062
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:08 pm

Re: Overindulgence in Dhamma Talks

Post by SDC »

I try only to listen on my commute home from work, which is about 40 minutes longer than the ride in. For some reason that is when my mind is the most lucid; something about having just done an honest day’s work and the routine of the route home has my mind super pliable. Outside of that I’ve noticed I opt for them out of boredom or to wind down at the end of the day. They just don’t hit as hard at those times.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
Cause_and_Effect
Posts: 1067
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:39 am

Re: Overindulgence in Dhamma Talks

Post by Cause_and_Effect »

ddeck wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:44 pm I often find myself trying to replace my cycle of craving for entertainment with Dhamma talks (and this forum...). I do believe that to an extent, this is in line with what the buddha taught. From MN 20:
Just as a skilled carpenter or his apprentice would use a small peg to knock out, drive out, and pull out a large one; in the same way, if evil, unskillful thoughts — imbued with desire, aversion, or delusion — arise in a monk while he is referring to and attending to a particular theme, he should attend to another theme, apart from that one, connected with what is skillful.
Though I find this to be somewhat in line, I cant help but feel that at many times this is my mind avoiding formal practice. I'm sure others here struggle with this. I've found that listening to talks from pretty blunt no-nonsense teachers like Thanissaro Bhikku and Luang Por Chah helps in keeping me motivated to practice. Any other thoughts about this or personal experiences?
I would agree.
Make sure that the talks and browsing forums and reading dhamma books is not driven by need for distraction. Make rarer visits and limit them e.g. maybe half an hour of Dhamma forum time a day and half and hour of talks and an hour of reading.

Make sure your meditation keeps pace with these activities.


SarathW wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:04 pm Yes, I do listen to a lot of Dhamma talk.
The only problem now I have is when I listen to many Dhamma talks that I find monks making errors or preach wrong Dhamma.
Then the aversion arising in me. If I try to correct the mistake some monks do not like it.
To be respectful,[13] humble, contented, and grateful; and to listen to the Dhamma on due occasions[14] — this is the greatest blessing.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .nara.html

If you have the right mental attitude, listening to Dhamma is a practice of the path.
Yes , monks dislike critical lay followers who have an intellectual understanding only from being opinionated and forming conceit instead of taking what is useful that they understand from a talk and can apply it to their actual practice.
This may be what you are falling into at times.
"Therein monks, that Dimension should be known wherein the eye ceases and the perception of forms fades away...the ear... the nose...the tongue... the body ceases and the perception of touch fades away...

That Dimension should be known wherein mentality ceases and the perception of mind-objects fades away.
That Dimension should be known; that Dimension should be known."


(S. IV. 98) - The Dimension beyond the All
SarathW
Posts: 21234
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Overindulgence in Dhamma Talks

Post by SarathW »

forming conceit
Only an Arahant eliminate coneit.
Perhaps we can be mindful of this.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Alino
Posts: 650
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:15 pm
Contact:

Re: Overindulgence in Dhamma Talks

Post by Alino »

I deleted my YouTube app and took adithana to not watch videos for a week, a least...

I think that what people are lacking, in general, in not information but practice - watching our own mind...
We don't live Samsara, Samsara is living us...

"Form, feelings, perceptions, formations, consciousness - don't care about us, we don't exist for them"
Ontheway
Posts: 3062
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:35 pm

Re: Overindulgence in Dhamma Talks

Post by Ontheway »

I just listen selectively.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
apophenia
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:46 am

Re: Overindulgence in Dhamma Talks

Post by apophenia »

I find the sweet spot is about one talk a day. If I listen to more, it becomes just a distraction and numbs the mind. Less, and I feel less connected to the teachings and let practice slide.

I've often wondered whether I was listening to too many dhamma talks. Recently I heard a talk by Ajahn Amaro in which he referred to the Avijja sutta (AN10.61) where it is said that not hearing the true dhamma leads to lack of faith/conviction, which leads to inapropiate attention. This made a lot of sense to me, and now I feel it's actually a good thing to listen to a talk a day - because it does help me to not seek out "baser" distractions (like reading science fiction), practice more, and feel more fulfilled even though I "do" or "consume" less. :twothumbsup:
User avatar
Jeff_
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:45 am

Re: Overindulgence in Dhamma Talks

Post by Jeff_ »

ddeck wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:44 pm I've found that listening to talks from pretty blunt no-nonsense teachers like Thanissaro Bhikku and Luang Por Chah helps in keeping me motivated to practice. Any other thoughts about this or personal experiences?
Most of Ajahn Thanissaro's talks, as you may know, are given at the start of the evening meditation session at Wat Metta. The sessions are an hour and the talks usually go for the first ten or fifteen minutes. If you listen to enough of his talks you will eventually hear him say something like, the talk should be kept in the background, the primary focus should be on your meditation object and whatever is relevant will make its way into your awareness. His teacher, Ajahn Fuang, used to say that anything you hear that's relevant, put it into practice right then and there. More than once I've heard him refer to the talk as a "fence" that stops you from wandering too far afield while meditating.

I mention this because you wrote:
I cant help but feel that at many times this is my mind avoiding formal practice.

Listening to a talk while you are meditating, then continuing your session past when the talk ends, is not avoiding formal practice at all but is probably ideal for someone practicing on their own. There's also the point, emphasized frequently, that practice isn't just something that happens when you're sitting with your eyes closed.

While I'm sure listening to a bunch of talks in a row, without reflecting on them, might not be as helpful, I wouldn't think it's necessarily bad, either. I've head Ajahn Thanissaro mention, in a Q and A session, that if someone has trouble relaxing they might want to put on one of his talks in the background, as he's been told he has a calming voice -- including by a parent who put his talks on when their child couldn't sleep. :P
User avatar
Crazy cloud
Posts: 930
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 8:55 am

Re: Overindulgence in Dhamma Talks

Post by Crazy cloud »

ddeck wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:44 pm Any other thoughts about this or personal experiences?
I can't see anything wrong with listening, seeing, smelling, touching or thinking as long as it doesn't stir up the mind. If it does, then just stop doing the thing that makes the mind become agitated.
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
Post Reply