Never lying down dhutanga

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Mr. Seek
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Never lying down dhutanga

Post by Mr. Seek »

Anyone doing the infamous nessajika dhutanga, where one refrains from lying down even when sleeping? No resting your back on anything; just sitting?

I've read most of the info on the matter but would like to hear from you guys. Have any of you tried it?
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Gwi
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Re: Never lying down dhutanga

Post by Gwi »

Mr. Seek wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:43 pm Anyone doing the infamous nessajika dhutanga, where one refrains from lying down even when sleeping? No resting your back on anything; just sitting?

I've read most of the info on the matter but would like to hear from you guys. Have any of you tried it?
That's training to be an arahat (for bhikkhu).
Hard training like that is rarely done.

Dhammapadå (272):
"Phusāmi nekkhammasukhaṃ,
Aputhujjanasevitaṃ.
Bhikkhu vissāsamāpādi,
Appattå āsavakkhayaṃ."
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
Alino
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Re: Never lying down dhutanga

Post by Alino »

Venerable Ajahn Amaro entertained this dhutanga for 4 years.
And when he came to Luang Por Sumedho to tell him that he abandon this practice, Luang Por replied : Finely!^^
We don't live Samsara, Samsara is living us...

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Mr. Seek
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Re: Never lying down dhutanga

Post by Mr. Seek »

Alino wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:28 pm Venerable Ajahn Amaro entertained this dhutanga for 4 years.
And when he came to Luang Por Sumedho to tell him that he abandon this practice, Luang Por replied : Finely!^^
I know about that story; quite interesting he managed for that much time.
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tharpa
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Re: Never lying down dhutanga

Post by tharpa »

Mr. Seek wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:43 pm Anyone doing the infamous nessajika dhutanga, where one refrains from lying down even when sleeping? No resting your back on anything; just sitting?

I've read most of the info on the matter but would like to hear from you guys. Have any of you tried it?
FWIW, I have heard from people who have done solitary retreats that in some Tibetan traditions, such as the Kagyu, the solitary retreat cabins do not have room to lie down. There is a groove so that you can lean your head back, though.

Edit: The three year retreats are not solitary.
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Never lying down dhutanga

Post by Coëmgenu »

The nearly-extinct Hossō sect, a Japanese school of Yogācāra, does a version of this. I don't know exactly how they do it, but one of the activities of their postulancy involves not laying down for some days or weeks.
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nmjojola
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Re: Never lying down dhutanga

Post by nmjojola »

Mr. Seek wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:43 pm No resting your back on anything...
Resting your back against a wall wouldn't mean one isn't taking up the particular austerity here, which is essentially simply not indulging in the pleasure of the lying down position; but standing or sitting only.
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salayatananirodha
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Re: Never lying down dhutanga

Post by salayatananirodha »

https://obo.genaud.net/dhamma-vinaya/pts/mn/mn.124.horn.pts.htm wrote:"During the eighty years that I have gone forth, your reverence,
I am not aware of having reclined against a reclining board."[21]
["Inasmuch as for eighty years
the venerable Bakkula is not aware
of having reclined against a reclining board -
we regard this as a wonder,
a marvellous quality in the venerable Bakkula."]

"During the eighty years that I have gone forth, your reverence,
I am not aware of having lain down to sleep."
["Inasmuch as for eighty years
the venerable Bakkula is not aware
of having lain down to sleep -
we regard this as a wonder,
a marvellous quality in the venerable Bakkula."]
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Mr. Seek
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Re: Never lying down dhutanga

Post by Mr. Seek »

Maaan, I want to practice this dhutanga so badly. Have any of you done it or tried it? :( :(
bpallister
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Re: Never lying down dhutanga

Post by bpallister »

Gwi wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:17 pm
Mr. Seek wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:43 pm Anyone doing the infamous nessajika dhutanga, where one refrains from lying down even when sleeping? No resting your back on anything; just sitting?

I've read most of the info on the matter but would like to hear from you guys. Have any of you tried it?
That's training to be an arahat (for bhikkhu).
Hard training like that is rarely done.

Dhammapadå (272):
"Phusāmi nekkhammasukhaṃ,
Aputhujjanasevitaṃ.
Bhikkhu vissāsamāpādi,
Appattå āsavakkhayaṃ."
could i practice in a recliner? :heart:
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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Never lying down dhutanga

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

  • Some astronaut on international spacestation said she always felt like sleeping upright whatever the direction of the body maybe.
𝓑𝓾𝓭𝓭𝓱𝓪 𝓗𝓪𝓭 𝓤𝓷𝓮𝓺𝓾𝓲𝓿𝓸𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓓𝓮𝓬𝓵𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽
  • Iᴅᴇᴀ ᴏꜰ Sᴏᴜʟ ɪs Oᴜᴛᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴀɴ Uᴛᴛᴇʀʟʏ Fᴏᴏʟɪsʜ Vɪᴇᴡ
    V. Nanananda

𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
  • Nᴏ sᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀs ᴀ Sᴇʟғ, Sᴏᴜʟ, Eɢᴏ, Sᴘɪʀɪᴛ, ᴏʀ Āᴛᴍᴀɴ
    V. Buddhādasa
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salayatananirodha
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Re: Never lying down dhutanga

Post by salayatananirodha »

Mr. Seek wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:53 pm Maaan, I want to practice this dhutanga so badly. Have any of you done it or tried it? :( :(
ajahn amaro
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Never lying down dhutanga

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

Visuddhimagga wrote:The sitter’s practice is undertaken with one of the following statements: “I refuse lying down” or “I undertake the sitter’s practice.”
The sitter can get up in any one of three watches of the night and walk up and down: for lying down is the only posture not allowed. These are the directions.
This has three grades too. Herein, one who is strict is not allowed a back-rest or cloth band or binding-strap [to prevent falling while asleep].¹ The medium one is allowed any one of these three. The mild one is allowed a back-rest, a cloth band, a binding-strap, a cushion, a “five-limb” and a “seven-limb.” A “five-limb” is [a chair] made with [four legs and] a support for the back. A “seven-limb” is one made with [four legs,] a support for the back and an [arm] support on each side.

¹ Āyogapatta—”a binding-strap”: this is probably the meaning. But cf. Vin II 135 and Vin-a 891.
The Sitter's practice was (and presumably still is) the norm on the full-moon and new-moon days at the Forest Saṅgha monasteries. I never succeeded properly. If I did stay up all night, I had to sleep the following day, and my concentration was completely shot. Only strong coffee kept me awake, and if you know anything about meditation, you know that high doses of caffeine are not what you need to gain concentration. Unless you have attained jhāna, it may not be for you, but give it a go and see what happens.
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gavesako
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Re: Never lying down dhutanga

Post by gavesako »

Zzzz...
nodding-monks-pakao-meditate.jpg
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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