Are the aggregates dukkha?
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Are the aggregates dukkha?
What are your thoughts on this? I might ask Bhante G this in the morning.
Re: Are the aggregates dukkha?
Yes.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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- Posts: 662
- Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:13 am
Re: Are the aggregates dukkha?
Thank you, friend
Re: Are the aggregates dukkha?
SN 56.11 wrote: Now this, bhikkhus, is the noble truth of suffering: birth is suffering, aging is suffering, illness is suffering, death is suffering; union with what is displeasing is suffering; separation from what is pleasing is suffering; not to get what one wants is suffering; in brief, the five aggregates subject to clinging are suffering.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
Re: Are the aggregates dukkha?
technically; because the moment you get involved with them, there will be dukkha
oh screw it, time for schisms
the five aggregate teaching is a misinterpreted reformulation of dependent co-arising
there i said it; written plain and simple in mn 18:
form (rūpa, e.g. cakkhu) → sentience or contact (viññāṇa or phassa) → sensation (vedanā) → apperception (saññā) → volition (saṅkhāra, vitakka, papañca, saṅkha) → dukkha
saññā is the main culprit; the last few paragraphs of snp 4.11 present a solution for it
see you in aviici hell, suckers; or tusita heaven, who knows
ask bhante g about this =)
oh screw it, time for schisms
the five aggregate teaching is a misinterpreted reformulation of dependent co-arising
there i said it; written plain and simple in mn 18:
form (rūpa, e.g. cakkhu) → sentience or contact (viññāṇa or phassa) → sensation (vedanā) → apperception (saññā) → volition (saṅkhāra, vitakka, papañca, saṅkha) → dukkha
saññā is the main culprit; the last few paragraphs of snp 4.11 present a solution for it
see you in aviici hell, suckers; or tusita heaven, who knows
ask bhante g about this =)
Last edited by Mr. Seek on Sun Oct 03, 2021 1:59 am, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Are the aggregates dukkha?
Pain itself is dukkha, as is change.SDC wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:58 pmSN 56.11 wrote: Now this, bhikkhus, is the noble truth of suffering: birth is suffering, aging is suffering, illness is suffering, death is suffering; union with what is displeasing is suffering; separation from what is pleasing is suffering; not to get what one wants is suffering; in brief, the five aggregates subject to clinging are suffering.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: Are the aggregates dukkha?
The Buddha still made use of sañña. The Buddha still used concepts and labels. They just need to be understood.Mr. Seek wrote: ↑Sun Oct 03, 2021 12:03 am technically, because the moment you get involved with them, there will be dukkha
oh screw it, time for schisms
the five aggregate teaching is a misinterpreted reformulation of dependent co-arising
there i said it; written plain and simple in mn 18:
form (rūpa, e.g. cakkhu) → sentience or contact (viññāṇa or phassa) → sensation (vedanā) → apperception (saññā) → volition (saṅkhāra, vitakka, papañca, saṅkha) → dukkha
saññā is the main culprit, and how to get rid of it is described in the last few paragraphs of snp 4.11
see you in aviici hell, suckers; or tusita heaven, who knows
ask bhante g about this =)
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: Are the aggregates dukkha?
Only if you cling to them.
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.
- BB
- BB
Re: Are the aggregates dukkha?
The Buddha still experienced dukkha.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: Are the aggregates dukkha?
I don't disagree, but pain is easily misunderstood. SN 36.6 can shed some light.Ceisiwr wrote: ↑Sun Oct 03, 2021 12:19 amPain itself is dukkha, as is change.SDC wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:58 pmSN 56.11 wrote: Now this, bhikkhus, is the noble truth of suffering: birth is suffering, aging is suffering, illness is suffering, death is suffering; union with what is displeasing is suffering; separation from what is pleasing is suffering; not to get what one wants is suffering; in brief, the five aggregates subject to clinging are suffering.
I think SN 56.11 sums it up nicely: not to get what one wants is suffering.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
Re: Are the aggregates dukkha?
Ok maybe you're right, ill give you the benefit of the doubt; i corrected myself to
"saññā is the main culprit; the last few paragraphs of snp 4.11 present a solution for it"
Re: Are the aggregates dukkha?
Please don't bring up the back ache!!!
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
Re: Are the aggregates dukkha?
He didn't experience it as "I" or "mine". The Buddha experienced pain of course but there was no suffering around it. Two very different things. The second dart was removed by him.
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.
- BB
- BB
Re: Are the aggregates dukkha?
“Mendicants, there are these three forms of suffering. What three? The suffering inherent in painful feeling; the suffering inherent in conditions; and the suffering inherent in perishing. These are the three forms of suffering." - SN 45.165
“And what, bhikkhus, is the passing away of suffering? In dependence on the eye and forms, eye-consciousness arises. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as condition, feeling comes to be; with feeling as condition, craving. But with the remainderless fading away and cessation of that same craving comes cessation of clinging; with the cessation of clinging, cessation of existence; with the cessation of existence, cessation of birth; with the cessation of birth, aging-and-death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, displeasure, and despair cease. Such is the cessation of this whole mass of suffering. This is the passing away of suffering." - SN 12.43
“Good, good, bhikkhu! These three feelings have been spoken of by me: pleasant feeling, painful feeling, neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling. These three feelings have been spoken of by me. And I have also said: ‘Whatever is felt is included in suffering.’ That has been stated by me with reference to the impermanence of formations. That has been stated by me with reference to formations being subject to destruction … to formations being subject to vanishing … to formations being subject to fading away … to formations being subject to cessation … to formations being subject to change." SN 36.11
The Buddha still experienced dukkha, despite not clinging to anything, because all of conditioned existence and everything therein IS dukkha.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: Are the aggregates dukkha?
The 1st dart is still dukkha. Removing "I" doesn't change that. The Buddha still perceived dhammas as being dukkha. The Buddha saw things correctly. All conditioned dhammas are therefore dukkha.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”