https://lucid24.org/kn/kn-iti/iti4/index.html#s109
The structure of KN Iti is very interesting, the whole KN Iti doesn't ever mention the explicit 4 jhana formulas,
and the last 5 or so suttas are a gradual training showing the path from worldling to nirvana.
So that equivalent passage from AN 4.12, in addition to including the keywords ekaggata, samadhi, passadhi (one who has passaddhi will have piti and sukha), are also occurring in an area of the gradual training normally occupied by the jhanas.
The only sensible conclusion is that samadhi is equivalent to the 4 jhanas.
Otherwise, you have some sort of alternative non jhana samadhi system.
Also note that AN 8.63 and MN 128, the 3 ways of samadhi, which also doesn't explicitly call it 'jhana', everyone easily accepts that as 4 jhana equivalent. AN 4.12 and KN Iti 111 is exactly the same situation. It's no less jhana than 3 way samadhi.
This is what I call the infinite duck problem. You have a number of places where 4 jhana formula is not explicitly stated, just a few of the key terms, yet Sujato and Vism. will conveniently crown certain ones "jhana", while all the others with just as strong of a candidacy are dismissed as "not jhanic samadhi." Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, walks like a duck but is not a duck unless Sujato says so. Smart money says, when Sujato seems really adamant it's not a duck, it's a duck.
waryoffolly wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:00 amSamahitam cittam ekaggam with no hindrances seems a pretty clearcut case of samadhi. Suttas frequently discuss the same topic using a different vocabulary IMO (although here the vocabulary is nearly synonymous with that used to discuss samadhi). To determine if the same topic is being discussed we have to look at the context. This passage here occurs as a description of the next step after developing strong sila, and the abandonment of the hindrances. Given the standard accounts of the gradual training, progression of the bojjhanga, transcendental DA, etc, in the suttas we can pretty safely claim this state as a type of samadhi given it's location in the developmental progression.