There is no subject in the end, there is only pure subjective experience.pegembara wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:11 am
The teachings are to be experienced by the wise which is purely subjective but there is ultimately no subject(all things are without self).
Yes, no conceptualizing of a self apart from, within or the same as subjectivity should be made.pegembara wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:11 am One can be aware of thoughts and thinking. That there is a thinker independent of thoughts/thinking ie a subject is a delusion.
But there can be pure subjective experience without conceptualizing or identifying.
That all phenomena are not-self does not have to mean that all subjectivity ends with the final goal, but that all grasping and identifying with it ends.
There can be thoughts without a thinker.
There can be pure awareness without grasping at a self and indentifying or conceptualizing.
It is a subtle difference when we get to this level as the 'I am' is the final defilement to drop.
Sati believed in the Atman doctrine.pegembara wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:11 am
"Which consciousness, Sāti, is that?" [1]
"This speaker, this knower, lord, that is sensitive here & there to the ripening of good & evil actions."
"And to whom, worthless man, do you understand me to have taught the Dhamma like that? Haven't I, in many ways, said of dependently co-arisen consciousness, 'Apart from a requisite condition, there is no coming-into-play of consciousness'? [2] But you, through your own poor grasp, not only slander us but also dig yourself up [by the root] and produce much demerit for yourself. That will lead to your long-term harm & suffering."
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
The Buddha corrected his wrong view.
Now on that occasion a pernicious view had arisen in a bhikkhu named Sāti, son of a fisherman, thus: “As I understand the Dhamma taught by the Blessed One, it is this same consciousness that runs and wanders through the round of rebirths, not another....”
Then those bhikkhus, desiring to detach him from that pernicious view, pressed and questioned and cross-questioned him thus: “Friend Sāti, do not say so. Do not misrepresent the Blessed One; it is not good to misrepresent the Blessed One. The Blessed One would not speak thus. For in many ways the Blessed One has stated consciousness to be dependently arisen, since without a condition there is no origination of consciousness.”
By saying 'this speaker, this knower is reborn' he conceptualizes an independent and indestructible self.
The Buddha broke down how the aggregates are conditionally arisen and how cognizance and knowing arises dependent on object.
The sutta does not address whether there is in the end a pure subjective awareness freed from involvement with the aggregates as the Bahuha sutta describes, but only how misconstruing from our experience a self that is reborn is a wrong view.