How do you deal with the fact that...

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Mr. Seek
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Re: How do you deal with the fact that...

Post by Mr. Seek »

samseva wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:20 am I don't think you consider it as such, but suffering is not on or off—it's varying degrees of intensity. There are some who suffer immensely, from unwholesome kamma and actions during their life, being in prison for life, drug addicts—while some suffer only 10% or even 1% of what similar people experience.

What the teachings offer is to first avoid the things which lead to immense amounts of suffering—and then, the more and more you develop the Path, the less and less you suffer.
Already explained in one of my previous posts that this, unfortunately, doesn't constitute the cessation of dukkha, but merely its reduction.

Also, regarding any attempts to categorize dukkha in terms of levels: I think it's pretty clear in the suttas that this is futile. Many passages make it clear that, ultimately, everything is dukkha, including "sukha". For example:

“Monks, just as even a tiny amount of feces is foul-smelling, in the same way, I don’t praise even a tiny amount of becoming—even as much as a finger-snap.”

"He has no uncertainty or doubt that, when there is arising, only stress is arising; and that when there is passing away, only stress is passing away."

"What is its great danger and fear?" (referring to the world), "Suffering-stress, [is] its great danger and fear"
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samseva
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Re: How do you deal with the fact that...

Post by samseva »

Mr. Seek wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:13 am That's what's being advertised, yet no Buddhist is achieving it. Hence this topic, to see how people feel, whether they're aware and OK with this, how are they dealing with it, etc.
I'm partly achieving it—dukkha/suffering in my life is 20x less than what I was experiencing around ten years ago.
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Dhamma Chameleon
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Re: How do you deal with the fact that...

Post by Dhamma Chameleon »

Dukkha is one of the three characteristics of existence, becoming an Arahant doesn't change that. The dukkha that can be ended in this life is the second arrow caused by attachment. The first arrow is just part of life, whatever your spiritual attainment. For an Arahant it ends at parinibbana.
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mjaviem
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Re: How do you deal with the fact that...

Post by mjaviem »

Mr. Seek wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:26 am ...
That's not a declaration of being subject to sorrow or wanting something and not getting it or any other kind of bondage and I and mine making or expectations of things to run differently. It would be similar to say "If I were to walk on embers barefoot that would be painful for me" this wouldn't be a declaration of being subject to pain and death.

He teaches that there can be freedom from bondage by following the path and this can be seen in the here and now. You can have faith and practise or you can practise and see for your self. If your dhamma is that liberation from all suffering is not possible or not possible here and now all I can say is that learning the Buddha's teachings would be highly beneficial for you.
Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Sammā Sambuddhassa
Mr. Seek
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Re: How do you deal with the fact that...

Post by Mr. Seek »

You know, maybe this is one of those things that can't really be put into words. Where logic and reasoning don't apply, or apply in a different kind of way. Whether true, false, or how much true, or how much false, etc., we'll probably never really know. And obviously we're dealing with an imperfect medium of information, so there's no point in even trying to make steadfast conclusions. I recall also how the mahāsāṃghikas considered some of the Buddha's dukkha to be mere illusion, that he was just putting on an act, and that he didn't need to eat or drink or sleep, etc., so there's that, a different kind of take on the matter. Nonetheless, we had a wonderful discussion. For sure made at least me think stuff through.
GreyHaven
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Re: How do you deal with the fact that...

Post by GreyHaven »

Mr. Seek wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:42 pm You know, maybe this is one of those things that can't really be put into words. Where logic and reasoning don't apply, or apply in a different kind of way. Whether true, false, or how much true, or how much false, etc., we'll probably never really know. And obviously we're dealing with an imperfect medium of information, so there's no point in even trying to make steadfast conclusions. I recall also how the mahāsāṃghikas considered some of the Buddha's dukkha to be mere illusion, that he was just putting on an act, and that he didn't need to eat or drink or sleep, etc., so there's that, a different kind of take on the matter. Nonetheless, we had a wonderful discussion. For sure made at least me think stuff through.
Keep in mind that the class of persons most likely to be stream-winners or "higher" in terms of true, permanent reduction of dukkha are also verboten from telling you or the world in general, directly. This is one reason you don't see it much - another is that most Buddhists worldwide are not actively pursuing enlightenment in this lifetime. You have no means of verifying "my" experience, but I can happily inform you without getting into needless details or descriptions that, based on such, "it" does in fact do what it says on the box. Everything Buddha said is true, and will produce the claimed results if accepted and worked with in earnest. I'm also not going to elaborate further, if you want to know, try it for yourself :)

Trying to figure out why most Buddhists seemingly have not gotten rid of their suffering, or attempting to map out an exact route to that goal, will result in never leaving the starting line. If you really want to know why so many others are suffering needlessly, you need to answer that question for yourself first. And it most definitely is answerable, but the question of "why don't most actually do it?" is both irrelevant and a potentially devastating stumbling block to your own understanding.
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