MN117

[form]

How to get the list of the 40 in the title?

[mikenz66]

How to get the list of the 40 in the title?

36. “Thus, bhikkhus, there are twenty factors on the side of the wholesome, and twenty factors on the side of the unwholesome. [1113] This Dhamma discourse on the Great Forty has been set rolling and cannot be stopped by any recluse or brahmin or god or Māra or Brahmā or anyone in the world.

Bhikkhu Bodhi's Footnote:
[1113] The twenty factors on the wholesome side are the ten right factors and the wholesome states that originate from each; the twenty factors on the unwholesome side are the ten wrong factors and the unwholesome states that originate from each. Hence the name “The Great Forty.”

Mike

[SarathW]

Previous discussions
I read MN 117 as follows:
- 10 wholesome factors by developing (good) and abandoning (bad) = 20 wholesome
- 10 unwholesome factors by developing (bad) and abandoning (good) = 20 unwholesome



viewtopic.php?f=13&t=22062&p=523383&hil ... ty#p523383

[form]

How to get the list of the 40 in the title?

36. “Thus, bhikkhus, there are twenty factors on the side of the wholesome, and twenty factors on the side of the unwholesome. [1113] This Dhamma discourse on the Great Forty has been set rolling and cannot be stopped by any recluse or brahmin or god or Māra or Brahmā or anyone in the world.

Bhikkhu Bodhi's Footnote:
[1113] The twenty factors on the wholesome side are the ten right factors and the wholesome states that originate from each; the twenty factors on the unwholesome side are the ten wrong factors and the unwholesome states that originate from each. Hence the name “The Great Forty.”

Mike

What are the ten right factors? I only memorise the dhamma in term of 4NT, 7FOE, 5H, 5A, sense bases and DO.

[form]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_factors_(Buddhism)

I found this. There are 25 wholesome mental factors and 14 unwholesome mental factors.

[mikenz66]

What are the ten right factors? I only memorise the dhamma in term of 4NT, 7FOE, 5H, 5A, sense bases and DO.

The sutta takes the normal 8 factors of the Path and adds right knowledge and right deliverance to make 10:

“Therein, bhikkhus, right view comes first. And how does right view come first? In one of right view, right intention comes into being; in one of right intention, right speech comes into being; in one of right speech, right action comes into being; in one of right action, right livelihood comes into being; in one of right livelihood, right effort comes into being; in one of right effort, right mindfulness comes into being; in one of right mindfulness, right concentration comes into being; in one of right concentration, right knowledge comes into being; in one of right knowledge, right deliverance comes into being. Thus, bhikkhus, the path of the disciple in higher training possesses eight factors, the arahant possesses ten factors.
https://suttacentral.net/mn117/en/bodhi

Mike

[SarathW]

Perhaps you can analyse this way too.

Noble Ten-Fold Path = 10. That can be Maggga and Phala constituting 20 ie 10X2=20
Then ignoble Ten-fold wrong Path =10 can be Magga and Phala constituting 20 ie 10x2=20

[form]

What are the ten right factors? I only memorise the dhamma in term of 4NT, 7FOE, 5H, 5A, sense bases and DO.

The sutta takes the normal 8 factors of the Path and adds right knowledge and right deliverance to make 10:

“Therein, bhikkhus, right view comes first. And how does right view come first? In one of right view, right intention comes into being; in one of right intention, right speech comes into being; in one of right speech, right action comes into being; in one of right action, right livelihood comes into being; in one of right livelihood, right effort comes into being; in one of right effort, right mindfulness comes into being; in one of right mindfulness, right concentration comes into being; in one of right concentration, right knowledge comes into being; in one of right knowledge, right deliverance comes into being. Thus, bhikkhus, the path of the disciple in higher training possesses eight factors, the arahant possesses ten factors.
https://suttacentral.net/mn117/en/bodhi

Mike

Got it. It is what Sarah always post about that tenfold path.

[form]

Perhaps you can analyse this way too.

Noble Ten-Fold Path = 10. That can be Maggga and Phala constituting 20 ie 10X2=20
Then ignoble Ten-fold wrong Path =10 can be Magga and Phala constituting 20 ie 10x2=20

Do you have the list that make up the 20?

[mikenz66]

Perhaps you can analyse this way too.

Noble Ten-Fold Path = 10. That can be Maggga and Phala constituting 20 ie 10X2=20
Then ignoble Ten-fold wrong Path =10 can be Magga and Phala constituting 20 ie 10x2=20

Do you have the list that make up the 20?

Hi form,

I thought Bhikkhu Bodhi's footnote was quite clear about that:

Bhikkhu Bodhi's Footnote:
[1113] The twenty factors on the wholesome side are the ten right factors [the usual 8 path factors plus right knowledge and right deliverance] and the wholesome states that originate from each; the twenty factors on the unwholesome side are the ten wrong factors and the unwholesome states that originate from each. Hence the name “The Great Forty.”

There are the ten path factors and the ten resultant states. The other 20 are the wrong x, wrong resultant state...


Mike

[form]

Perhaps you can analyse this way too.

Noble Ten-Fold Path = 10. That can be Maggga and Phala constituting 20 ie 10X2=20
Then ignoble Ten-fold wrong Path =10 can be Magga and Phala constituting 20 ie 10x2=20

Do you have the list that make up the 20?

Hi form,

I thought Bhikkhu Bodhi's footnote was quite clear about that:

Bhikkhu Bodhi's Footnote:
[1113] The twenty factors on the wholesome side are the ten right factors [the usual 8 path factors plus right knowledge and right deliverance] and the wholesome states that originate from each; the twenty factors on the unwholesome side are the ten wrong factors and the unwholesome states that originate from each. Hence the name “The Great Forty.”

There are the ten path factors and the ten resultant states. The other 20 are the wrong x, wrong resultant state...


Mike

Thanks. Let me study that. Forgive me as I am too fixed on my dhamma memorisation. Differ from the structures I am familiar with and I am lost.

[SarathW]

Perhaps you can analyse this way too.

Noble Ten-Fold Path = 10. That can be Maggga and Phala constituting 20 ie 10X2=20
Then ignoble Ten-fold wrong Path =10 can be Magga and Phala constituting 20 ie 10x2=20

Do you have the list that make up the 20?

Hi form,

I thought Bhikkhu Bodhi's footnote was quite clear about that:

Bhikkhu Bodhi's Footnote:
[1113] The twenty factors on the wholesome side are the ten right factors [the usual 8 path factors plus right knowledge and right deliverance] and the wholesome states that originate from each; the twenty factors on the unwholesome side are the ten wrong factors and the unwholesome states that originate from each. Hence the name “The Great Forty.”

There are the ten path factors and the ten resultant states. The other 20 are the wrong x, wrong resultant state...


Mike

Thank you, Mike.
I am glad you noted that.
It is great to have like-minded people.

[SarathW]

I listened to a Sri Lankan monk (in the Sinhalese language) for 3 hours to find an answer for this but end up with the same uncertainty.
The way he explains this is as follows.
4 - The wrong view is eliminated - Unwholesome related to the wrong view is eliminated - Right view is gained - wholesome related to right view is gained
4 - the Right thought etc
4 -the right speech etc.
....

4X10=40