It is inconclusive to say that there is no world

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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form
Posts: 3471
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:23 am

It is inconclusive to say that there is no world

Post by form »

More like the world is conditioned and many beings come together because they delight in the same things.
SarathW
Posts: 21227
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: It is inconclusive to say that there is no world

Post by SarathW »

I don't think that Buddha says there is no world.
What he said was that the world is what we perceive through our six senses.
He said whatever we perceive through our six senses are appear empty, void, without substance.
Form is like a glob of foam;
feeling, a bubble;
perception, a mirage;
fabrications, a banana tree;
consciousness, a magic trick —
this has been taught
by the Kinsman of the Sun.
However you observe them,
appropriately examine them,
they're empty, void
to whoever sees them
appropriately.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
form
Posts: 3471
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:23 am

Re: It is inconclusive to say that there is no world

Post by form »

SarathW wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:28 am I don't think that Buddha says there is no world.
What he said was that the world is what we perceive through our six senses.
He said whatever we perceive through our six senses are appear empty, void, without substance.
Form is like a glob of foam;
feeling, a bubble;
perception, a mirage;
fabrications, a banana tree;
consciousness, a magic trick —
this has been taught
by the Kinsman of the Sun.
However you observe them,
appropriately examine them,
they're empty, void
to whoever sees them
appropriately.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
He never said that. But I read some people said that in this forum. Another point i making s about birds of some feathers flocked together.
SarathW
Posts: 21227
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: It is inconclusive to say that there is no world

Post by SarathW »

form wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:25 am
SarathW wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:28 am I don't think that Buddha says there is no world.
What he said was that the world is what we perceive through our six senses.
He said whatever we perceive through our six senses are appear empty, void, without substance.
Form is like a glob of foam;
feeling, a bubble;
perception, a mirage;
fabrications, a banana tree;
consciousness, a magic trick —
this has been taught
by the Kinsman of the Sun.
However you observe them,
appropriately examine them,
they're empty, void
to whoever sees them
appropriately.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
He never said that. But I read some people said that in this forum. Another point i making s about birds of some feathers flocked together.
Please create a new post if you want to discuss this.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
form
Posts: 3471
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:23 am

Re: It is inconclusive to say that there is no world

Post by form »

SarathW wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:09 am
form wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:25 am
SarathW wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:28 am I don't think that Buddha says there is no world.
What he said was that the world is what we perceive through our six senses.
He said whatever we perceive through our six senses are appear empty, void, without substance.
Form is like a glob of foam;
feeling, a bubble;
perception, a mirage;
fabrications, a banana tree;
consciousness, a magic trick —
this has been taught
by the Kinsman of the Sun.
However you observe them,
appropriately examine them,
they're empty, void
to whoever sees them
appropriately.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
He never said that. But I read some people said that in this forum. Another point i making s about birds of some feathers flocked together.
Please create a new post if you want to discuss this.
It is related. The world is created by that.
josaphatbarlaam
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:03 pm

Re: It is inconclusive to say that there is no world

Post by josaphatbarlaam »

Form is like a glob of foam;
Foam is real, but short lived.
feeling, a bubble;
Bubbles are also real but even more short lived.
perception, a mirage;
mirages are a real phenomena but deceptive.
fabrications, a banana tree;
banana tree is pretty solid, so this ackbowledges the reality of matter
consciousness, a magic trick —
I thibk more properly a "conjurors trick" showing the combinative nature of "consciousness" as it is meant here, i.e. the combination of the senses. Many senses are combined by the slight of hand artists to deceive as to what really happened. They have you look at the coin and then with the boice distract you at the right moment with what they say so you don't see where they moved it. Hence the trick combines different senses. And that is what consciousness means here.
Ontheway
Posts: 3062
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:35 pm

Re: It is inconclusive to say that there is no world

Post by Ontheway »

" 'There is what is given and what is offered and what is sacrificed; there is fruit and result of good and bad actions; there is this world and the other world; there is mother and father; there are beings who are reborn spontaneously; there are in the world good and virtuous recluses and brahmins who have realised for themselves by direct knowledge and declare this world and the other world.’ This is right view affected by taints, partaking of merit, ripening in the acquisitions."

- Mahācattārīsakasutta
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
pegembara
Posts: 3465
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:39 am

Re: It is inconclusive to say that there is no world

Post by pegembara »

Is the world out there or within? Or rather is the world outside of your six senses?
"I tell you, friend, that it is not possible by traveling to know or see or reach a far end of the cosmos where one does not take birth, age, die, pass away, or reappear. But at the same time, I tell you that there is no making an end of suffering & stress without reaching the end of the cosmos. Yet it is just within this fathom-long body, with its perception & intellect, that I declare that there is the cosmos, the origination of the cosmos, the cessation of the cosmos, and the path of practice leading to the cessation of the cosmos."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
"Dependent on the eye & forms there arises consciousness at the eye. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as a requisite condition, there arises what is felt either as pleasure, pain, or neither pleasure nor pain. If, when touched by a feeling of pleasure, one relishes it, welcomes it, or remains fastened to it, then one's passion-obsession gets obsessed. If, when touched by a feeling of pain, one sorrows, grieves, & laments, beats one's breast, becomes distraught, then one's resistance-obsession gets obsessed. If, when touched by a feeling of neither pleasure nor pain, one does not discern, as it actually is present, the origination, passing away, allure, drawback, or escape from that feeling, then one's ignorance-obsession gets obsessed. That a person — without abandoning passion-obsession with regard to a feeling of pleasure, without abolishing resistance-obsession with regard to a feeling of pain, without uprooting ignorance-obsession with regard to a feeling of neither pleasure nor pain, without abandoning ignorance and giving rise to clear knowing — would put an end to suffering & stress in the here & now: such a thing isn't possible.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
And what is right view that is noble, undefiled, transcendent, a factor of the path? It’s the wisdom—the faculty of wisdom, the power of wisdom, the awakening factor of investigation of principles, and right view as a factor of the path—in one of noble mind and undefiled mind, who possesses the noble path and develops the noble path. This is called right view that is noble, undefiled, transcendent, a factor of the path.

https://suttacentral.net/mn117/en/sujat ... ript=latin
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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