Ten fold path

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form
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Ten fold path

Post by form »

The right knowledge and right liberation are the stages when 8 fold path merge into one?
BKh
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Re: Ten fold path

Post by BKh »

I just wanted to say that in the suttas, there is no such thing as a "tenfold path." Right knowledge and right liberation are not factors of a path. They are the result of following the path.

It is incorrect to use the term ten fold path. Unless I'm wrong and it does appear somewhere in the suttas. But I don't think it does.
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mikenz66
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Re: Ten fold path

Post by mikenz66 »

For reference, here is the passage from MN117, where the ten are mentioned.
https://suttacentral.net/mn117/
“In one of right speech, wrong speech is abolished…In one of right action, wrong action is abolished…In one of right livelihood, wrong livelihood is abolished …In one of right effort, wrong effort is abolished…In one of right mindfulness, wrong mindfulness is abolished…In one of right concentration, wrong concentration is abolished…In one of right knowledge, wrong knowledge is abolished…In one of right deliverance, wrong deliverance is abolished, and the many evil unwholesome states that originate with wrong deliverance as condition are also abolished, and the many wholesome states that originate with right deliverance as condition come to fulfilment by development.

“Thus, bhikkhus, there are twenty factors on the side of the wholesome, and twenty factors on the side of the unwholesome. This Dhamma discourse on the Great Forty has been set rolling and cannot be stopped by any recluse or brahmin or god or Māra or Brahmā or anyone in the world.
Mike
SarathW
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Re: Ten fold path

Post by SarathW »

BKh wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:41 pm I just wanted to say that in the suttas, there is no such thing as a "tenfold path." Right knowledge and right liberation are not factors of a path. They are the result of following the path.

It is incorrect to use the term ten fold path. Unless I'm wrong and it does appear somewhere in the suttas. But I don't think it does.
e find this 10-fold sequence at many places in the main nikayas, mostly in the Anguttara:

DN 18, DN 33, DN 34
MN 8, MN 65, MN 78, MN 117
AN 4.89, AN 4.206, AN 10.103 – AN 10.115, AN 10.117, AN 10.119 – AN 10.134, AN 10.144 – AN 10.166, AN 10.239
SN 14.29, SN 45.26, SN 55.26
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/no ... -path/2963
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
SarathW
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Re: Ten fold path

Post by SarathW »

BKh wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:41 pm I just wanted to say that in the suttas, there is no such thing as a "tenfold path." Right knowledge and right liberation are not factors of a path. They are the result of following the path.

It is incorrect to use the term ten fold path. Unless I'm wrong and it does appear somewhere in the suttas. But I don't think it does.
I see your point.
Noble Eightfold Path could be Magga (path) and the right knowledge and right release could be Phala.(fruit)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
BKh
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Re: Ten fold path

Post by BKh »

The list of ten things is absolutely a Buddhist teaching and, as you have posted, it's found throughout the suttas. My point was that it is never referred to as a tenfold path which I see as a big distinction and one that can give rise to doubt.
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PeterC86
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Re: Ten fold path

Post by PeterC86 »

form wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:30 pm The right knowledge and right liberation are the stages when 8 fold path merge into one?
What are you talking about? Where do you get this from? Is this stated in a sutta? What is your point of departure?
BKh wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:57 am The list of ten things is absolutely a Buddhist teaching and, as you have posted, it's found throughout the suttas. My point was that it is never referred to as a tenfold path which I see as a big distinction and one that can give rise to doubt.
Please post sutta evidence to what you are saying here.
BKh
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Re: Ten fold path

Post by BKh »

PeterC86 wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:15 pm
BKh wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:57 am The list of ten things is absolutely a Buddhist teaching and, as you have posted, it's found throughout the suttas. My point was that it is never referred to as a tenfold path which I see as a big distinction and one that can give rise to doubt.
Please post sutta evidence to what you are saying here.
Well, the big distinction part is my belief, it's not something I can quote.

The fact that "tenfold path" does not exist isn't something I can provide sutta evidence for since... the term doesn't exist. Or perhaps you meant something else?
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SarathW
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Re: Ten fold path

Post by SarathW »

BKh wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:45 am
PeterC86 wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:15 pm
BKh wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:57 am The list of ten things is absolutely a Buddhist teaching and, as you have posted, it's found throughout the suttas. My point was that it is never referred to as a tenfold path which I see as a big distinction and one that can give rise to doubt.
Please post sutta evidence to what you are saying here.
Well, the big distinction part is my belief, it's not something I can quote.

The fact that "tenfold path" does not exist isn't something I can provide sutta evidence for since... the term doesn't exist. Or perhaps you meant something else?
This is a good point.
The way I understand the Noble Eightfold Path is the Magga or the path.
The right knowledge and right release (the balance two) is the Phala or the fruit.
My research so far found only Ven. Thanissaro has used this term.
One of the peculiarities of the Wings, viewed as a whole, is that two sets are duplicates: the five faculties and the five strengths contain the same five factors. Several theories have been advanced as to why the Buddha included what is essentially the same set twice. One is that he wanted to indicate that the five factors that make up each set could exist in the mind in two distinct levels of intensity, one sufficient for the path to stream-entry, the first level of Awakening, and the other needed for Arahantship, the highest level. This may parallel the passage [§106] where the Buddha makes a similar distinction between the noble eightfold path of stream-entry and the tenfold path of Arahantship. There is some disagreement among later writers as to which of the two sets, the faculties or the strengths, should be considered the more intense, although there is one canonical passage [§85] where the term "faculty" seems to rank on a higher level than "strength."
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... part2.html
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
SarathW
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Re: Ten fold path

Post by SarathW »

SarathW wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:21 am
BKh wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:41 pm I just wanted to say that in the suttas, there is no such thing as a "tenfold path." Right knowledge and right liberation are not factors of a path. They are the result of following the path.

It is incorrect to use the term ten fold path. Unless I'm wrong and it does appear somewhere in the suttas. But I don't think it does.
I see your point.
Noble Eightfold Path could be Magga (path) and the right knowledge and right release could be Phala.(fruit)
This is confirmed in the following video that it is Eightfold Path and the two Phala
The video is in Sinhalese and is provided here only for reference.

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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