Why does Bodhisatva look for a mother?

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SarathW
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Why does Bodhisatva look for a mother?

Post by SarathW »

Why does Bodhisatva look for a mother?
We were taught that Bodhisatva look for five things before he descended to this world.
They are the time (Kala), the continent, the place, cast, and mother.
Where do you find this teaching?
Why does Bodhisatva look for the mother, not the father?
Can we apply this to the rebirth theory and the theory of how consciousness arises?
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Why does Bodhisatva look for a mother?

Post by Coëmgenu »

Does the Bodhisatta consciously select his mother and choose his area and time of birth in Theravāda too? I'd only encountered this in Mahāyāna.
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Re: Why does Bodhisatva look for a mother?

Post by dharmacorps »

To be born (as a Buddha or otherwise), one has to have a mother.
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Why does Bodhisatva look for a mother?

Post by Coëmgenu »

But do Buddhas-to-be actively select their own mother, versus "just being born" from one according to their karma? That's the question, IMO. A Bodhisatta, from what I imagine to be the "Theravadin perspective," would be a very special worldling upon birth, but a worldling all the same. I don't know this for sure, it's my guess. Worldlings, non-Buddhas, non-Bodhisattas (apparently), do not select their mothers. They are born from them without consent from the born necessarily.
Last edited by Coëmgenu on Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
josaphatbarlaam
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Re: Why does Bodhisatva look for a mother?

Post by josaphatbarlaam »

SarathW wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:35 pm Why does Bodhisatva look for a mother?
I think the idea would be to make sure she is not an irreligious atheist materialist type that will screw them over and send them back striving another billion lifetimes.
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Re: Why does Bodhisatva look for a mother?

Post by josaphatbarlaam »

SarathW wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:35 pm Why does Bodhisatva look for a mother?
In modern times a Bodhisatva would have to choose a mother who will not force transition him to a female since a Buddha has to be male.
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Re: Why does Bodhisatva look for a mother?

Post by Ontheway »

josaphatbarlaam wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:31 pm
SarathW wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:35 pm Why does Bodhisatva look for a mother?
In modern times a Bodhisatva would have to choose a mother who will not force transition him to a female since a Buddha has to be male.
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un8-
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Re: Why does Bodhisatva look for a mother?

Post by un8- »

Generally speaking, a child is more exposed to a mother than to a father. For example you see more single mothers than single fathers.
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Re: Why does Bodhisatva look for a mother?

Post by alicem »

The Buddha chooses his final birth when he is residing in Tushita heaven and thus has divine clairvoyance and can see where is the ideal place for the Dhamma to arise and take root. He makes sure he will arise in a noble family, with a mother who will pass away soon (so that she will not stain her mind with sensual pleasures after the bodhisatta is born).
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Re: Why does Bodhisatva look for a mother?

Post by Dhammanando »

Coëmgenu wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:43 pm Does the Bodhisatta consciously select his mother and choose his area and time of birth in Theravāda too? I'd only encountered this in Mahāyāna.
In the commentarial texts the Bodhisatta surveys the world and foresees the circumstances of his final birth, e.g., whether his family will be khattiyas or brahmanas.

The change of this act of foreseeing into an act of choosing is a folk Theravada misunderstanding of what the texts say. A Bodhisatta's birth, like anyone else's birth, is determined by his kamma. For example, the fact that he will always be either a khattiya or a brahmana is not because he has any choice in the matter, but because by the time of his final life his accumulated merit will always guarantee birth in whatever happens to be the highest varna.
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asahi
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Re: Why does Bodhisatva look for a mother?

Post by asahi »

There is a sutta says there are four type of descending into the womb and one of it is being a clear discerning while entering , while remaining and while exiting . Therefore , it is possible for an adept in jhana and training to choose their birth destination , parents and timing .
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Re: Why does Bodhisatva look for a mother?

Post by Dhammanando »

asahi wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:10 am There is a sutta says there are four type of descending into the womb and one of it is being a clear discerning while entering , while remaining and while exiting . Therefore , it is possible for an adept in jhana and training to choose their birth destination , parents and timing .
To clearly discern what's happening is not the same as choosing it to happen.
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asahi
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Re: Why does Bodhisatva look for a mother?

Post by asahi »

Dhammanando wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:40 am
asahi wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:10 am There is a sutta says there are four type of descending into the womb and one of it is being a clear discerning while entering , while remaining and while exiting . Therefore , it is possible for an adept in jhana and training to choose their birth destination , parents and timing .
To clearly discern what's happening is not the same as choosing it to happen.
There were / are many cases that shows practitioner capable of choosing their birth and even choose death willfully .
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Dhammanando
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Re: Why does Bodhisatva look for a mother?

Post by Dhammanando »

asahi wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:44 pm There were / are many cases that shows practitioner capable of choosing their birth and even choose death willfully .
Choosing death wilfully is of course an easy enough thing to do.

But where are these supposed cases of practitioners choosing the circumstances of their next birth? Are you referring to Pali texts or to Tibetan hagiographies and suchlike? If it's the former, then the closest we get to this is that a person might wish for such and such type of birth (e.g., in a Brahmā heaven, or in a place where he can be reunited with his spouse, or as a human in the time of some future Buddha), make an effort to cultivate the appropriate sort of merit and then keep his fingers crossed that things will eventuate according to his wishes. It would be rather a stretch to call this "choosing" one's next birth
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
PeterC86
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Re: Why does Bodhisatva look for a mother?

Post by PeterC86 »

SarathW wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:35 pm Why does Bodhisatva look for a mother?
We were taught that Bodhisatva look for five things before he descended to this world.
They are the time (Kala), the continent, the place, cast, and mother.
Where do you find this teaching?
Why does Bodhisatva look for the mother, not the father?
Can we apply this to the rebirth theory and the theory of how consciousness arises?
I don't see this coming from, or relating to, the Pali Canon.
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