Why does Bodhisatva look for a mother?

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asahi
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Re: Why does Bodhisatva look for a mother?

Post by asahi »

Dhammanando wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:37 am Choosing death wilfully is of course an easy enough thing to do.

But where are these supposed cases of practitioners choosing the circumstances of their next birth? Are you referring to Pali texts or to Tibetan hagiographies and suchlike? If it's the former, then the closest we get to this is that a person might wish for such and such type of birth (e.g., in a Brahmā heaven, or in a place where he can be reunited with his spouse, or as a human in the time of some future Buddha), make an effort to cultivate the appropriate sort of merit and then keep his fingers crossed that things will eventuate according to his wishes. It would be rather a stretch to call this "choosing" one's next birth
For instant if an adept monk when approaching his death already knew his next birth destination say is in one of heaven realm , but if he so intend to choose take birth in human realm and to a certain family with affinity that is possible imo .
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Dhammanando
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Re: Why does Bodhisatva look for a mother?

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asahi wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:55 pm
Dhammanando wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:37 am Choosing death wilfully is of course an easy enough thing to do.

But where are these supposed cases of practitioners choosing the circumstances of their next birth? Are you referring to Pali texts or to Tibetan hagiographies and suchlike? If it's the former, then the closest we get to this is that a person might wish for such and such type of birth (e.g., in a Brahmā heaven, or in a place where he can be reunited with his spouse, or as a human in the time of some future Buddha), make an effort to cultivate the appropriate sort of merit and then keep his fingers crossed that things will eventuate according to his wishes. It would be rather a stretch to call this "choosing" one's next birth
For instant if an adept monk when approaching his death already knew his next birth destination say is in one of heaven realm , but if he so intend to choose take birth in human realm and to a certain family with affinity that is possible imo .
This doesn't answer my question regarding a source where such a thing is reported. Are you talking about accounts that a Theravada Buddhist would want to take seriously or about Chinese or Tibetan folk myths and suchlike?
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It turns out otherwise.
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asahi
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Re: Why does Bodhisatva look for a mother?

Post by asahi »

Dhammanando wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:24 pm This doesn't answer my question regarding a source where such a thing is reported. Are you talking about accounts that a Theravada Buddhist would want to take seriously or about Chinese or Tibetan folk myths and suchlike?

I dont know if there are any other sutta but this one appear to be the closes and by inference we can be confident that the pre-awakening Buddha was capable of it .

I have learned this in the presence of the Buddha: ‘Mindful and aware, the being intent on awakening passed away from the host of Joyful Gods and was conceived in his mother’s womb.’ This too I remember as an incredible quality of the Buddha.

I have learned this in the presence of the Buddha: ‘When the being intent on awakening passes away from the host of Joyful Gods, he is conceived in his mother’s womb.
Acchariyaabbhutasutta
MN 123
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Dhammanando
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Re: Why does Bodhisatva look for a mother?

Post by Dhammanando »

asahi wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:47 pm I dont know if there are any other sutta but this one appear to be the closes and by inference we can be confident that the pre-awakening Buddha was capable of it .
But no such inference is possible.

The sutta merely affirms that the Bodhisatta was mindful and aware during the rebirth process. But you made this point earlier and I didn't dispute it. What I disputed is whether the fact of his being mindful at this time allows the inference that the Bodhisatta chose where he would be reborn. To me that doesn't seem to follow at all. A person can be mindful and aware both when deliberately performing an action and when passively undergoing some experience. As such, your sutta quote is neutral on the question of whether the Bodhisatta selected the circumstances of his birth.
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
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Re: Why does Bodhisatva look for a mother?

Post by form »

Dhammanando wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:50 am
Coëmgenu wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:43 pm Does the Bodhisatta consciously select his mother and choose his area and time of birth in Theravāda too? I'd only encountered this in Mahāyāna.
In the commentarial texts the Bodhisatta surveys the world and foresees the circumstances of his final birth, e.g., whether his family will be khattiyas or brahmanas.

The change of this act of foreseeing into an act of choosing is a folk Theravada misunderstanding of what the texts say. A Bodhisatta's birth, like anyone else's birth, is determined by his kamma. For example, the fact that he will always be either a khattiya or a brahmana is not because he has any choice in the matter, but because by the time of his final life his accumulated merit will always guarantee birth in whatever happens to be the highest varna.
I was about to post when I read through this. I have similar idea.

Birth is determined by Kamma even for a Buddha. Furthermore it is not likely the Buddha choose anything but he intuitively know what will happen in future.
asahi
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Re: Why does Bodhisatva look for a mother?

Post by asahi »

Imo an adept master with deep jhana couple with mindfulness and awareness , the ability of intend would enable him to choose the environment or where he would be reborn . Unfortunately , i didnt have sutta to support .
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