Ven Pindola's story

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TRobinson465
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Ven Pindola's story

Post by TRobinson465 »

Hello all,


I remember reading a book about how Ven Pindola Bharadvaja used his psychic powers to levitate and get a sandalwood bowl, which was the basis for the Buddha not allowing miracles and the beginning of the story on the Twin Miracle. Does anyone know where i can find the direct sutta for this story?

I also find this story strange, because the vinaya rule against truthfully telling someone of ones supranormal abilities is a completely different story than the story of Pindola and the sandalwood bowl.


https://suttacentral.net/pli-tv-bu-vb-p ... ript=latin


Anybody know why this is?
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
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frank k
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Re: Ven Pindola's story

Post by frank k »

good article here, probably contains the answer. let us know what you find out.
https://www.themindingcentre.org/dharma ... a-piya.pdf

i thought that story would be in the vinaya rules, not in the suttas, but a quick glance at piya's article maybe it's from dhammapada commentary story.
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TRobinson465
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Re: Ven Pindola's story

Post by TRobinson465 »

frank k wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:57 pm good article here, probably contains the answer. let us know what you find out.
https://www.themindingcentre.org/dharma ... a-piya.pdf

i thought that story would be in the vinaya rules, not in the suttas, but a quick glance at piya's article maybe it's from dhammapada commentary story.
Thanks! It looks like there is a seperate rule about displaying supernormal powers to the unordained as opposed to announcing them. It doesnt look like this is recorded as an actual patimokkha rule tho, but as a story relating to the twin miracle. Quite interesting. This kinda reminds me of the the account where the Buddha advocates only eating one meal a day yet it is not recorded (afaik) directly in the patimokkha as an official rule.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
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frank k
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Re: Ven Pindola's story

Post by frank k »

TRobinson465 wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:02 am ...
Thanks! It looks like there is a seperate rule about displaying supernormal powers to the unordained as opposed to announcing them. It doesnt look like this is recorded as an actual patimokkha rule tho, but as a story relating to the twin miracle. Quite interesting. This kinda reminds me of the the account where the Buddha advocates only eating one meal a day yet it is not recorded (afaik) directly in the patimokkha as an official rule.
There are lots of rules in the vinaya surrounding eating, but only in restricting the window of eating to sunrise to noon. The suttas mention eating once per day being better, but for health reasons those who need to eat in more than one sitting can do so. I have sutta references here:
https://lucid24.org/sted/eating/index.html

There's a sutta, I can't remember which one, I thought it might be AN 3.60 or AN 3.63 but I just checked and its not, where the Buddha is talking to brahmans and he corrects some of their views, and at the end of the sutta the Buddha levitates and flies away. That would seem to contradict his own rule on not displaying powers.
www.lucid24.org/sted : ☸Lucid24.org🐘 STED definitions
www.audtip.org/audtip: 🎙️🔊Audio Tales in Pāli: ☸Dharma and Vinaya in many languages
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confusedlayman
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Re: Ven Pindola's story

Post by confusedlayman »

frank k wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:45 pm
TRobinson465 wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:02 am ...
Thanks! It looks like there is a seperate rule about displaying supernormal powers to the unordained as opposed to announcing them. It doesnt look like this is recorded as an actual patimokkha rule tho, but as a story relating to the twin miracle. Quite interesting. This kinda reminds me of the the account where the Buddha advocates only eating one meal a day yet it is not recorded (afaik) directly in the patimokkha as an official rule.
There are lots of rules in the vinaya surrounding eating, but only in restricting the window of eating to sunrise to noon. The suttas mention eating once per day being better, but for health reasons those who need to eat in more than one sitting can do so. I have sutta references here:
https://lucid24.org/sted/eating/index.html

There's a sutta, I can't remember which one, I thought it might be AN 3.60 or AN 3.63 but I just checked and its not, where the Buddha is talking to brahmans and he corrects some of their views, and at the end of the sutta the Buddha levitates and flies away. That would seem to contradict his own rule on not displaying powers.
I think buddha knows what he needs to do.. rules are for monks only i think so future generation follow
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
TRobinson465
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Re: Ven Pindola's story

Post by TRobinson465 »

frank k wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:45 pm
TRobinson465 wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:02 am ...
Thanks! It looks like there is a seperate rule about displaying supernormal powers to the unordained as opposed to announcing them. It doesnt look like this is recorded as an actual patimokkha rule tho, but as a story relating to the twin miracle. Quite interesting. This kinda reminds me of the the account where the Buddha advocates only eating one meal a day yet it is not recorded (afaik) directly in the patimokkha as an official rule.
There are lots of rules in the vinaya surrounding eating, but only in restricting the window of eating to sunrise to noon. The suttas mention eating once per day being better, but for health reasons those who need to eat in more than one sitting can do so. I have sutta references here:
https://lucid24.org/sted/eating/index.html

There's a sutta, I can't remember which one, I thought it might be AN 3.60 or AN 3.63 but I just checked and its not, where the Buddha is talking to brahmans and he corrects some of their views, and at the end of the sutta the Buddha levitates and flies away. That would seem to contradict his own rule on not displaying powers.
Yes I know. That's why I said advocate and not require.

The Twin miracle story says the rule applies to his monks but not him. This is perhaps why it's not in the patimokka? Just speculating
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
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confusedlayman
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Re: Ven Pindola's story

Post by confusedlayman »

TRobinson465 wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:24 am
frank k wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:45 pm
TRobinson465 wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:02 am ...
Thanks! It looks like there is a seperate rule about displaying supernormal powers to the unordained as opposed to announcing them. It doesnt look like this is recorded as an actual patimokkha rule tho, but as a story relating to the twin miracle. Quite interesting. This kinda reminds me of the the account where the Buddha advocates only eating one meal a day yet it is not recorded (afaik) directly in the patimokkha as an official rule.
There are lots of rules in the vinaya surrounding eating, but only in restricting the window of eating to sunrise to noon. The suttas mention eating once per day being better, but for health reasons those who need to eat in more than one sitting can do so. I have sutta references here:
https://lucid24.org/sted/eating/index.html

There's a sutta, I can't remember which one, I thought it might be AN 3.60 or AN 3.63 but I just checked and its not, where the Buddha is talking to brahmans and he corrects some of their views, and at the end of the sutta the Buddha levitates and flies away. That would seem to contradict his own rule on not displaying powers.
Yes I know. That's why I said advocate and not require.

The Twin miracle story says the rule applies to his monks but not him. This is perhaps why it's not in the patimokka? Just speculating
I heard twin miracle can be done only by buddha
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
TRobinson465
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Re: Ven Pindola's story

Post by TRobinson465 »

confusedlayman wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:11 am
I heard twin miracle can be done only by buddha
I think thats is right. only Sammasambuddhas can perform the twin miracle. but i meant the rule about not showing miracles to laypeople applied only to the monks and not the Buddha himself.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
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confusedlayman
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Re: Ven Pindola's story

Post by confusedlayman »

TRobinson465 wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:42 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:11 am
I heard twin miracle can be done only by buddha
I think thats is right. only Sammasambuddhas can perform the twin miracle. but i meant the rule about not showing miracles to laypeople applied only to the monks and not the Buddha himself.
Buddha knows whom the mirracle will lead to faith for enlightment and who will think its not suitable way but maybe monks dont know ?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
TRobinson465
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Re: Ven Pindola's story

Post by TRobinson465 »

confusedlayman wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:03 am
TRobinson465 wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:42 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:11 am
I heard twin miracle can be done only by buddha
I think thats is right. only Sammasambuddhas can perform the twin miracle. but i meant the rule about not showing miracles to laypeople applied only to the monks and not the Buddha himself.
Buddha knows whom the mirracle will lead to faith for enlightment and who will think its not suitable way but maybe monks dont know ?
The logic he used in the twin miracle story was that a king can forbid his subjects from taking fruit from his orchard but the king himself can still take fruit from his orchard. Again i think this exception that he made for himself is possibly (my own ignorant speculation) the reason the rule doesnt show up in the patimokkha.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
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