The Curious Case of the Sotāpanna & Sakadagami

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Jack19990101
Posts: 714
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:40 am

Re: The Curious Case of the Sotāpanna & Sakadagami

Post by Jack19990101 »

Going to meditative realm requires absorption while dying. That means if one have absorption attainment but he is grossly distracted at the moment of rebirth, (or has lost the virtue to enter jhana), he won't be reborn into an absorption realm.
use case is Devatta.

Sakadagami only reborns in 'this world' once only - but he could be born into absorption realms multiple times before being a human again.
Absorption realm is not considered 'this world', as least to my understanding.
Jack19990101
Posts: 714
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:40 am

Re: The Curious Case of the Sotāpanna & Sakadagami

Post by Jack19990101 »

Meditative realm only requires absorption during rebirth - that means that it doesn't require uproot of kama raga, it only requires temporarily suppress it.
BrokenBones
Posts: 1782
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:20 am

Re: The Curious Case of the Sotāpanna & Sakadagami

Post by BrokenBones »

This may have some relevance...

viewtopic.php?t=25617

Surely they'd be one or two sotapanna's in the 2nd jhana.

It's all a bit speculative.
User avatar
confusedlayman
Posts: 6231
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am
Location: Human Realm (as of now)

Re: The Curious Case of the Sotāpanna & Sakadagami

Post by confusedlayman »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:29 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:26 pm
The above says doing jhana after becoming anagami..
This is stream entry.

"In the same way, when the stainless, immaculate vision of the teaching arises in a noble disciple, three fetters are given up: identity view, doubt, and misapprehension of precepts and observances."

After achieving stream entry, then the Jhānas are achieved

"Afterwards they get rid of two things: desire and aversion. Quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, they enter and remain in the first absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of seclusion, while placing the mind and keeping it connected."

It then looks like at this point they become a non-returner.

"If that noble disciple passed away at that time, they’re bound by no fetter that might return them to this world."
Sotapanna still has desire and aversion to this world.. so anagami has no desire and aversion ... however if sotapanna become brahma and pracgice there he can atyain anagmi and arhant there itself ... still he wont comeback to human world due to his practice there
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
Post Reply