Go away, monks, I dismiss you, you should not stay near me.

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asahi
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Go away, monks, I dismiss you, you should not stay near me.

Post by asahi »

Why did the Buddha get upset with loud noises ? Isnt a perfected one has no more aversion or feel irritated ? This doesnt seems like a person whom already eradicated byāpāda ?
:shrug:


Cātumasutta
MN 67

Then the Lord addressed the venerable Ānanda, saying: “What, Ānanda, is this loud noise, this great noise, which seems like that of fisherfolk when hauling in a catch?”
The Lord spoke thus to these monks as they were sitting down at a respectful distance: “Do not you, monks, think that the loud noise, the great noise is like that of fisherfolk when hauling in a catch?” “Revered sir, at least five hundred monks with Sāriputta and Moggallāna at their head have arrived at Cātumā to see the Lord, and while the incoming monks are exchanging greetings with the resident monks, while lodgings are being prepared and bowls and robes are being put away, there is a loud noise, a great noise.” “Go away, monks, I dismiss you, you should not stay near me.”
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Ontheway
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Re: Go away, monks, I dismiss you, you should not stay near me.

Post by Ontheway »

Not at all. The Buddha has a purpose doing so. Read the entire Sutta. The Buddha don't have attachment towards likes and dislikes.

Disparaging the Buddha won't do you any good.
Last edited by Ontheway on Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Go away, monks, I dismiss you, you should not stay near me.

Post by Ceisiwr »

Because he didn’t like the noise, presumably because it’s a distraction from Jhana. He didn’t like his fame and all the visitors either.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
asahi
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Re: Go away, monks, I dismiss you, you should not stay near me.

Post by asahi »

So Buddha wasnt 24/7 in jhana ?
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Go away, monks, I dismiss you, you should not stay near me.

Post by Ceisiwr »

asahi wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:22 pm So Buddha wasnt 24/7 in jhana ?
No.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Go away, monks, I dismiss you, you should not stay near me.

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:31 pm
asahi wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:22 pm So Buddha wasnt 24/7 in jhana ?
No.
:goodpost:




asahi wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:22 pm So Buddha wasnt 24/7 in jhana ?
So, are you of the opinion that Buddha was 24/7 in jhana?
𝓑𝓾𝓭𝓭𝓱𝓪 𝓗𝓪𝓭 𝓤𝓷𝓮𝓺𝓾𝓲𝓿𝓸𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓓𝓮𝓬𝓵𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽
  • Iᴅᴇᴀ ᴏꜰ Sᴏᴜʟ ɪs Oᴜᴛᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴀɴ Uᴛᴛᴇʀʟʏ Fᴏᴏʟɪsʜ Vɪᴇᴡ
    V. Nanananda

𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
  • Nᴏ sᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀs ᴀ Sᴇʟғ, Sᴏᴜʟ, Eɢᴏ, Sᴘɪʀɪᴛ, ᴏʀ Āᴛᴍᴀɴ
    V. Buddhādasa
asahi
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Re: Go away, monks, I dismiss you, you should not stay near me.

Post by asahi »

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:20 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:31 pm
asahi wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:22 pm So Buddha wasnt 24/7 in jhana ?
No.
:goodpost:




asahi wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:22 pm So Buddha wasnt 24/7 in jhana ?
So, are you of the opinion that Buddha was 24/7 in jhana?
No . But i would think perhaps Buddha constantly abiding in a equanimous state . :roll:
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Go away, monks, I dismiss you, you should not stay near me.

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

30. Dismissal of the Order
“It was said by the Blessed One, ‘I harbour not anger nor sulkiness’. Yet he dismissed Sāriputta and Moggallāna with their disciples. Was it then not in anger that he did this?”

“The Tathāgata did dismiss the monks, but not in anger. It was due to what they themselves had done that they were dismissed. As the great earth does not feel anger if a man stumbles and falls. It is the man’s own fault that he stumbles. So too the Blessed One does not feel ill-will of any kind. He sent them away knowing, ‘It will be for their good, happiness, purific­ation and deliverance from suffer­ing’.” (The Debate of King Milinda)

The Buddha did not practise "idiot compassion."
Regarding speech that was displeasing to others, but was beneficial, he knew the right time to use it.

See the Māgaṇḍiya Suttaṃ, for example. He used speech that was extremely displeasing to the brahmin’s daughter, and she hated the Buddha because of it, later falling into hell. However, the speech was beneficial to her parents who both went forth and attained Arahantship. Māgaṇḍiyā, the brahmin’s daughter, came to a sticky end after murdering Sāmāvatī and her retinue. Surely, the Buddha knew that this would happen, so why did he speak disparagingly of Māgaṇḍiyā’s body as being full of impure things? His speech was of great benefit to her parents.

The Soṇa Suttaṃ is another good example of the displeasing speech used by the Buddha. The conceited Brahmins would surely have been deeply insulted, but the teaching was beneficial for others.
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Pulsar
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Re: Go away, monks, I dismiss you, you should not stay near me.

Post by Pulsar »

OP wrote
So Buddha wasnt 24/7 in jhana ?
Even some compilers of the canon did not think so.
But if you correctly understood jhana, I mean Buddhist jhana, not stuff like Arupa samapattis, all Arahants are
24/7 nibbanized.
They never enter the sensory world, even though the puthujjanas think they are in the sensory world, simply because they themselves are trapped in the world.
Ordinary person cannot understand what it is like to be un-imprisoned by sensation, or the aggregates.
I love the last comment...
30. Dismissal of the Order
“It was said by the Blessed One, ‘I harbour not anger nor sulkiness’. Yet he dismissed Sāriputta and Moggallāna with their disciples. Was it then not in anger that he did this?”

“The Tathāgata did dismiss the monks, but not in anger. It was due to what they themselves had done that they were dismissed. As the great earth does not feel anger if a man stumbles and falls. It is the man’s own fault that he stumbles. So too the Blessed One does not feel ill-will of any kind. He sent them away knowing, ‘It will be for their good, happiness, purific­ation and deliverance from suffer­ing’.” (The Debate of King Milinda)

The Buddha did not practise "idiot compassion."
Regarding speech that was displeasing to others, but was beneficial, he knew the right time to use it.

See the Māgaṇḍiya Suttaṃ, for example. He used speech that was extremely displeasing to the brahmin’s daughter, and she hated the Buddha because of it, later falling into hell. However, the speech was beneficial to her parents who both went forth and attained Arahantship. Māgaṇḍiyā, the brahmin’s daughter, came to a sticky end after murdering Sāmāvatī and her retinue. Surely, the Buddha knew that this would happen, so why did he speak disparagingly of Māgaṇḍiyā’s body as being full of impure things? His speech was of great benefit to her parents.

The Soṇa Suttaṃ is another good example of the displeasing speech used by the Buddha. The conceited Brahmins would surely have been deeply insulted, but the teaching was beneficial for others.
With love :candle:
Ontheway
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Re: Go away, monks, I dismiss you, you should not stay near me.

Post by Ontheway »

See the Māgaṇḍiya Suttaṃ, for example. He used speech that was extremely displeasing to the brahmin’s daughter, and she hated the Buddha because of it, later falling into hell. However, the speech was beneficial to her parents who both went forth and attained Arahantship. Māgaṇḍiyā, the brahmin’s daughter, came to a sticky end after murdering Sāmāvatī and her retinue. Surely, the Buddha knew that this would happen, so why did he speak disparagingly of Māgaṇḍiyā’s body as being full of impure things? His speech was of great benefit to her parents.
This interpretation is quite disturbing. If we are to follow this interpretation, it seems the Buddha deliberately attacking her with words. The Buddha could have used better way of conveying message that would benefit all three of them. And if we follow this interpretation, it seems the Buddha used the words to despise Magandiya deliberately, after foreseeing her future. This is really "unbuddha" though...


I would say the Buddha is only speaking truth in a way when commenting on filthiness of the physical body. The parents are able to understand it and it brings realisation on Dhamma. Their daughter Magandiya, on the other hand, failed to understand due to her immature thinking and pride. It was her shortcoming, nothing to do with the Buddha. The speech of Buddha at that event, though harsh yet beneficial to all of them, just that Magandiya failed to get the message correctly due to her weaknesses.

And back to the Catuma Suttanta, the reason why the Buddha dismissed the newly ordained monks is very clear showed in the Sutta itself:
Then the Blessed One addressed the venerable Maha Moggallana: "What did you think, Moggallana, when the Sangha of bhikkhus was dismissed by me?"
Moggallana: "Venerable sir, I thought thus: 'The Sangha of bhikkhus has been dismissed by the Blessed One. The Blessed One will now abide inactive, devoted to pleasant abiding here and now. Now the venerable Sariputta and I shall lead the Sangha of bhikkhus.'"
Buddha: :"Good, good, Moggallana! Either I shall lead the Sangha of bhikkhus or else Sariputta and Moggallana shall lead it."
- Catuma Suttanta

Why would the Buddha wanted Arahant Sariputta and Arahant Maha Moggallana to lead this group of newly ordained bhikkhus? Because the Buddha knew that both of them can help in teaching the Dhamma for these new Bhikkhus:
"Monks, associate with Sariputta & Moggallana. Consort with Sariputta & Moggallana. They are wise monks, sympathetic toward their fellows in the holy life. Like the mother giving birth: That's Sariputta. Like the nurse raising a child after it's born: That's Moggallana. Sariputta trains [others] to the fruit of stream-entry; Moggallana, to the highest goal.[1] Sariputta is capable of declaring, teaching, describing, setting forth, revealing, explaining, and making plain the four noble truths in detail."
- Saccavibhanga Suttanta
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Go away, monks, I dismiss you, you should not stay near me.

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

asahi wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:41 am
Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:20 am ...
asahi wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:22 pm So Buddha wasnt 24/7 in jhana ?
So, are you of the opinion that Buddha was 24/7 in jhana?
No . But i would think perhaps Buddha constantly abiding in a equanimous state .

:goodpost:
𝓑𝓾𝓭𝓭𝓱𝓪 𝓗𝓪𝓭 𝓤𝓷𝓮𝓺𝓾𝓲𝓿𝓸𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓓𝓮𝓬𝓵𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽
  • Iᴅᴇᴀ ᴏꜰ Sᴏᴜʟ ɪs Oᴜᴛᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴀɴ Uᴛᴛᴇʀʟʏ Fᴏᴏʟɪsʜ Vɪᴇᴡ
    V. Nanananda

𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
  • Nᴏ sᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀs ᴀ Sᴇʟғ, Sᴏᴜʟ, Eɢᴏ, Sᴘɪʀɪᴛ, ᴏʀ Āᴛᴍᴀɴ
    V. Buddhādasa
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Go away, monks, I dismiss you, you should not stay near me.

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

Ontheway wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:49 pmThis interpretation is quite disturbing. If we are to follow this interpretation, it seems the Buddha deliberately attacking her with words.
What he said, in verse, was:
“Having seen craving, discontent, and passion, I had no desire for sexual intercourse.
What is this here full of excrement and urine? I do not wish to touch it even with my foot.”
He spoke in disparaging terms about her physical body, which the average deluded man might regard as a thing of beauty. He must have known that she would take it as insulting. Had she had good perfections like her parents, she could have had similar realisations, but she lacked the spiritual maturity to understand the blunt truth.
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