"Removal" of karma?

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dpcalder
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"Removal" of karma?

Post by dpcalder »

It is my understanding that in Vajrayana Buddhism, there are protocols for the removal of karma, such as Dzogchen. Is this something that Theravada Buddhists believe in? More specifically, do Theravada Buddhists believe that bad karma can be removed by encountering the occasion that produced them with equanimity?
Ontheway
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Re: "Removal" of karma?

Post by Ontheway »

Lonaphala Sutta from Anguttara Nikaya is the answer.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
TRobinson465
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Re: "Removal" of karma?

Post by TRobinson465 »

As far as i know the only way for bad ahosi kamma (kamma disappearing) to actually occur is if you become an arahant and simply escape samsara before the karma can catch up to you. Other than that it works in the way as the salt analogy presented above.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
justindesilva
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Re: "Removal" of karma?

Post by justindesilva »

dpcalder wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:40 am It is my understanding that in Vajrayana Buddhism, there are protocols for the removal of karma, such as Dzogchen. Is this something that Theravada Buddhists believe in? More specifically, do Theravada Buddhists believe that bad karma can be removed by encountering the occasion that produced them with equanimity?
Karma is cetana or volition. It is said kammakkayo nibbanam meaning nibbana is ddestroying karma. From my understanding sankara makes way for cetana and vingnana. But by clinging (upadana) to tanha bhava or the reentering of realms occur. It is also called punarbava. Yet when we refrain from clinging to tanha or desires punarbava does not occur. Same way by not clinging to tanha or aggregates or kanda a recurring of vingnana and hence a next bhava do not take place. Summarily by not clinging to desires or tanha kamma vipaka do not occur.
Jacob.B
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Re: "Removal" of karma?

Post by Jacob.B »

TRobinson465 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:55 am As far as i know the only way for bad ahosi kamma (kamma disappearing) to actually occur is if you become an arahant and simply escape samsara before the karma can catch up to you. Other than that it works in the way as the salt analogy presented above.
That would not negate the results of unwholesome actions, an example is Angulimala being pelted with stones and being injured while collecting alms as a result of the murders he committed.

https://suttacentral.net/mn86/en/sujato
He understood: “Rebirth is ended; the spiritual journey has been completed; what had to be done has been done; there is no return to any state of existence.” And Venerable Aṅgulimāla became one of the perfected.

Then Venerable Aṅgulimāla robed up in the morning and, taking his bowl and robe, entered Sāvatthī for alms. Now at that time someone threw a stone that hit Aṅgulimāla, someone else threw a stick, and someone else threw gravel. Then Aṅgulimāla—with cracked head, bleeding, his bowl broken, and his outer robe torn—went to the Buddha.

The Buddha saw him coming off in the distance, and said to him, “Endure it, brahmin! Endure it, brahmin! You’re experiencing in this life the result of deeds that might have caused you to be tormented in hell for many years, many hundreds or thousands of years.”
TRobinson465
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Re: "Removal" of karma?

Post by TRobinson465 »

Jacob.B wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:36 am
TRobinson465 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:55 am As far as i know the only way for bad ahosi kamma (kamma disappearing) to actually occur is if you become an arahant and simply escape samsara before the karma can catch up to you. Other than that it works in the way as the salt analogy presented above.
That would not negate the results of unwholesome actions, an example is Angulimala being pelted with stones and being injured while collecting alms as a result of the murders he committed.

https://suttacentral.net/mn86/en/sujato
He understood: “Rebirth is ended; the spiritual journey has been completed; what had to be done has been done; there is no return to any state of existence.” And Venerable Aṅgulimāla became one of the perfected.

Then Venerable Aṅgulimāla robed up in the morning and, taking his bowl and robe, entered Sāvatthī for alms. Now at that time someone threw a stone that hit Aṅgulimāla, someone else threw a stick, and someone else threw gravel. Then Aṅgulimāla—with cracked head, bleeding, his bowl broken, and his outer robe torn—went to the Buddha.

The Buddha saw him coming off in the distance, and said to him, “Endure it, brahmin! Endure it, brahmin! You’re experiencing in this life the result of deeds that might have caused you to be tormented in hell for many years, many hundreds or thousands of years.”
Angulimalas karma was far more severe considering the gravity of his actions. Had he not become an arahant in that life he would have suffered a lot worse in future lives. The cutting off of what he would have experienced in future lives by attaining nirvana in that life was "most" of his previous karma becoming ahosi kamma
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
dharmacorps
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Re: "Removal" of karma?

Post by dharmacorps »

I don't think we can really say what "theravada buddhists believe", but we can say fairly surely that there is no basis for erasing bad kamma in the pali canon. There is much said about how to handle having done wrong in the past however. Most of the Vajrayana methods for this have nothing to do with the pali canon though so its no surprise.
Joe.c
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Re: "Removal" of karma?

Post by Joe.c »

Nobody can erase past kamma. Past is already gone, one can only see present moment how to improve/change to be good.

Practice Noble 8fold Path. You will abandon kamma and other views, concepts etc. The old kamma vipaka will be experienced little by little if there is any, per Buddha.

Nobody can tell you exactly how many bad things you have done in past except YOU. I doubt you can remember the past current life, let alone many past lifes before this one.

So get the Starting point of N8FP is Right view.

See SN 55.1 Buddha said to be a stream enterer is better than a wheel-turning monarch (king of the whole world).
Now suppose a noble disciple wears rags and feeds on scraps of almsfood. Still, as they have four things, they’re exempt from hell, the animal realm, or the ghost realm. They’re exempt from places of loss, bad places, the underworld.

And, mendicants, gaining these four continents is not worth a sixteenth part of gaining these four things.”
Four things: unshakable faith in buddha, dhamma, ariya-sangha and morality loves by other noble one that lead to samadhi.
May you be relax, happy, comfortable and free of dukkhas from hearing true dhamma.
May you gain unshakable confidence in Buddha, Dhamma and (Ariya) Sangha.
Learn about Buddha/Dhamma Characters.
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