Did sariputta attain 9th jhana

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asahi
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Did sariputta attain 9th jhana

Post by asahi »

Did he ? I mean from 1st to 9th jhana (cessation of feeling perception) ?
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Nicolas
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Re: Did sariputta attain 9th jhana

Post by Nicolas »

Anupada Sutta (MN 111) wrote: And further, with the complete transcending of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception, Sāriputta entered & remained in the cessation of perception & feeling. And when he saw with discernment, his effluents were totally ended. He emerged mindfully from that attainment. On emerging mindfully from that attainment, he regarded the past qualities that had ceased & changed: ‘So this is how these qualities, not having been, come into play. Having been, they vanish.’ He remained unattracted & unrepelled with regard to those qualities, independent, detached, released, dissociated, with an awareness rid of barriers. He discerned that ‘There is no further escape,’ and pursuing it, he confirmed that ‘There isn’t.’
asahi
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Re: Did sariputta attain 9th jhana

Post by asahi »

Nicolas wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:08 pm
Anupada Sutta (MN 111) wrote: And further, with the complete transcending of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception, Sāriputta entered & remained in the cessation of perception & feeling. And when he saw with discernment, his effluents were totally ended. He emerged mindfully from that attainment. On emerging mindfully from that attainment, he regarded the past qualities that had ceased & changed: ‘So this is how these qualities, not having been, come into play. Having been, they vanish.’ He remained unattracted & unrepelled with regard to those qualities, independent, detached, released, dissociated, with an awareness rid of barriers. He discerned that ‘There is no further escape,’ and pursuing it, he confirmed that ‘There isn’t.’
Is this reliable ? The escape mentioned here was about through practices of jhanas not contemplation of the aggregates !
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thepea
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Re: Did sariputta attain 9th jhana

Post by thepea »

There is no 9th jhana.
form
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Re: Did sariputta attain 9th jhana

Post by form »

thepea wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:47 am There is no 9th jhana.
There is not even anything beyond 4th jhanas.
asahi
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Re: Did sariputta attain 9th jhana

Post by asahi »

thepea wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:47 am There is no 9th jhana.
How so ?
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justindesilva
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Re: Did sariputta attain 9th jhana

Post by justindesilva »

asahi wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:50 am
thepea wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:47 am There is no 9th jhana.
How so ?
I have read that there are 4 rupa jhana and another 4 arupa jhana attained by an arhat.
The 9th jhana was only experienced by lord budda. All these 9 states of jhana is explained by texts.
asahi
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Re: Did sariputta attain 9th jhana

Post by asahi »

justindesilva wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:04 pm
asahi wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:50 am
thepea wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:47 am There is no 9th jhana.
How so ?
I have read that there are 4 rupa jhana and another 4 arupa jhana attained by an arhat.
The 9th jhana was only experienced by lord budda. All these 9 states of jhana is explained by texts.
Did you read MN111 ?
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justindesilva
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Re: Did sariputta attain 9th jhana

Post by justindesilva »

asahi wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:44 pm
justindesilva wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:04 pm
asahi wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:50 am

How so ?
I have read that there are 4 rupa jhana and another 4 arupa jhana attained by an arhat.
The 9th jhana was only experienced by lord budda. All these 9 states of jhana is explained by texts.
Did you read MN111 ?
Though I read Anupada sutta mn111, I did not find 9th jhana mentioned attained by Sariputta thero, yet his equivalence of psychic state with that of budda. May be I missed it.
2600htz
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Re: Did sariputta attain 9th jhana

Post by 2600htz »

Hi:

Thats some curious view (that sariputta did not attained cessation of feeling and perception).

Where does this come from?, because mn 111 is pretty clear.

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justindesilva
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Re: Did sariputta attain 9th jhana

Post by justindesilva »

2600htz wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:41 pm Hi:

Thats some curious view (that sariputta did not attained cessation of feeling and perception).

Where does this come from?, because mn 111 is pretty clear.

Regards
Did then Moggallana too reach 9th jhana and is it necessary that all arhants reach 9th jhana.
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Nicolas
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Re: Did sariputta attain 9th jhana

Post by Nicolas »

justindesilva wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 3:02 am Did then Moggallana too reach 9th jhana [...]
Mahāmoggallānattheragāthā (Thag 20.1) wrote: A member of the Moggallāna clan,
Attained to perfection and mastery
In samādhi
and knowledge,
Wise in the teachings of the unattached,
With serene faculties, has burst his bonds,
Like an elephant bursts a rope of creeper.

justindesilva wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 3:02 am [...] and is it necessary that all arhants reach 9th jhana.
Kīṭāgiri Sutta (MN 70) wrote: What kind of person is one liberated-by-wisdom? Here some person does not contact with the body and abide in those liberations that are peaceful and immaterial, transcending forms, but his taints are destroyed by his seeing with wisdom.
justindesilva
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Re: Did sariputta attain 9th jhana

Post by justindesilva »

Nicolas wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 3:36 am
justindesilva wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 3:02 am Did then Moggallana too reach 9th jhana [...]
Mahāmoggallānattheragāthā (Thag 20.1) wrote: A member of the Moggallāna clan,
Attained to perfection and mastery
In samādhi
and knowledge,
Wise in the teachings of the unattached,
With serene faculties, has burst his bonds,
Like an elephant bursts a rope of creeper.

justindesilva wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 3:02 am [...] and is it necessary that all arhants reach 9th jhana.
Kīṭāgiri Sutta (MN 70) wrote: What kind of person is one liberated-by-wisdom? Here some person does not contact with the body and abide in those liberations that are peaceful and immaterial, transcending forms, but his taints are destroyed by his seeing with wisdom.
Accepted and may the wholesome merits be on you.
thepea
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Re: Did sariputta attain 9th jhana

Post by thepea »

asahi wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:50 am
thepea wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:47 am There is no 9th jhana.
How so ?
I have not experienced a 9th jhana unless you call that nibanna. Is this what you mean?
form
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Re: Did sariputta attain 9th jhana

Post by form »

There are only 4 jhanas
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