Phassa and the divine eye

[Bundokji]

Friends,

In the teachings of paṭiccasamuppāda, phassa is preceded by Āyatana. Some suttas refer to the divine eye as surpassing the human.

Can we consider the attainment of the divine eye as phassa nirodha based on range? or would it still be considered dependent on phassa?

Thank you

[santa100]

Can we consider the attainment of the divine eye as phassa nirodha based on range? or would it still be considered dependent on phassa?

Per the dictionary on divine-eye/dibba-cakkhu:

"With the divine eye (dibba-cakkhu = yathā-kammūpaga-ñāna or cutūpapāta-ñāna), the pure one, he sees beings vanishing and reappearing, low and noble ones, beautiful and ugly ones, sees how beings are reappearing according to their deeds (s. karma): 'These beings, indeed, followed evil ways in bodily actions, words and thoughts, insulted the noble ones, held evil views, and according to their evil views they acted. At the dissolution of their body, after death, they have appeared in lower worlds, in painful states of existence, in the world of suffering, in hell. Those other beings, however, are endowed with good action .... have appeared in happy state of existence, in a heavenly world.

So, it's not that Phassa has ceased, it's that the noble one doesn't use the crude fleshly-eye/mamsa-cakkhu of the worldlings to make contact. For us worldlings, we haven't developed our faculty to a sophisticated enough degree, so while beings are constantly vanishing and reappearing into various realms of existence according to their Kamma right in front of our eye, and yet our crude fleshly-eye is unable to "make contact" to be able to see that.

[Bundokji]

Can we consider the attainment of the divine eye as phassa nirodha based on range? or would it still be considered dependent on phassa?

Per the dictionary on divine-eye/dibba-cakkhu:

"With the divine eye (dibba-cakkhu = yathā-kammūpaga-ñāna or cutūpapāta-ñāna), the pure one, he sees beings vanishing and reappearing, low and noble ones, beautiful and ugly ones, sees how beings are reappearing according to their deeds (s. karma): 'These beings, indeed, followed evil ways in bodily actions, words and thoughts, insulted the noble ones, held evil views, and according to their evil views they acted. At the dissolution of their body, after death, they have appeared in lower worlds, in painful states of existence, in the world of suffering, in hell. Those other beings, however, are endowed with good action .... have appeared in happy state of existence, in a heavenly world.

So, it's not that Phassa has ceased, it's that the noble one doesn't use the crude fleshly-eye/mamsa-cakkhu of the worldlings to make contact. For us worldlings, we haven't developed our faculty to a sophisticated enough degree, so while beings are constantly vanishing and reappearing into various realms of existence according to their Kamma right in front of our eye, and yet our crude fleshly-eye is unable to "make contact" to be able to see that.

Thank you for your answer

As you said, the Buddha does not have to use the crude fleshly eye, but apart from the gross body, there is also the mind made body and the formless as per DN9.

I am wondering about the applicability of paṭiccasamuppāda. As it stands alone, it seems applicable only to the grossest form of identifying with the body of flesh and bones. However, when i think of it in terms of Idappaccayatā, it seems to be applicable to all forms, coarse and subtle.

The divine eye is one of the three knowledge, but we also have the divine ear. The framing of these surpassing powers seems to mimic the six sense base. Whatever they are, they must be perceptions by virtue of being knowledge.

The grossest level, in a way, seems to be more powerful than the higher ones. The psychic powers of Ven. Maha Moggallana did not protect from old unripe kamma. This raises questions about the place of phassa nirodha in the teachings.

[Bundokji]

Also the relationship between range, the six senses and the all is interesting. With the use of technology, range transcends the location of the physical body to make contact. I remember hearing once that Martin Heidegger in Being and Time argued that human beings are unrecognizable from the tools they use.