Do you agree with the Dhammadinna's statement?

[SarathW]

Do you agree with the Dhammadinna's statement?

"And are the three aggregates [of virtue, concentration, & discernment] included under the noble eightfold path, lady, or is the noble eightfold path included under the three aggregates?"

"The three aggregates are not included under the noble eightfold path, friend Visakha, but the noble eightfold path is included under the three aggregates. Right speech, right action, & right livelihood come under the aggregate of virtue. Right effort, right mindfulness, & right concentration come under the aggregate of concentration. Right view & right resolve come under the aggregate of discernment."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

To me when you practice Sila it might have some concentration and some wisdom.
However the way I understand Ven. Dhammadinna is trying to put it in to a tight three compartments.
I voted "No"

[sunnat]

“… Then Visakha the lay follower, delighting & rejoicing in what Dhammadinna the nun had said, bowed down to her and, keeping her to his right, went to the Blessed One. On arrival, having bowed down to the Blessed One, he sat to one side. As he was sitting there he told the Blessed One the full extent of the conversation he had had with Dhammadinna the nun. When this was said, the Blessed One said to him, "Dhammadinna the nun is wise, Visakha, a woman of great discernment. If you had asked me those things, I would have answered you in the same way she did. That is the meaning of those things. That is how you should remember it."

That is what the Blessed One said. Gratified, Visakha the lay follower delighted in the Blessed One's words.”

[bodom]

Do you agree with the Dhammadinna's statement?

"And are the three aggregates [of virtue, concentration, & discernment] included under the noble eightfold path, lady, or is the noble eightfold path included under the three aggregates?"

"The three aggregates are not included under the noble eightfold path, friend Visakha, but the noble eightfold path is included under the three aggregates. Right speech, right action, & right livelihood come under the aggregate of virtue. Right effort, right mindfulness, & right concentration come under the aggregate of concentration. Right view & right resolve come under the aggregate of discernment."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

To me when you practice Sila it might have some concentration and some wisdom.
However the way I understand Ven. Dhammadinna is trying to put it in to a tight three compartments.
I voted "No"

Hard to disagree with what she said given that Buddha approved of her answer.

As he was sitting there he told the Blessed One the full extent of the conversation he had had with Dhammadinna the nun. When this was said, the Blessed One said to him, "Dhammadinna the nun is wise, Visakha, a woman of great discernment. If you had asked me those things, I would have answered you in the same way she did. That is the meaning of those things. That is how you should remember it."

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

Do you agree with the Dhammadinna's statement?

Yes.

It's a matter of taxonomy and relational mapping.

Can you map each of the eight, to one of the three? Yes.
Can you map each of the three, to one of the eight? No.

Metta,
Paul.

[SarathW]

Greetings,

Do you agree with the Dhammadinna's statement?

Yes.

It's a matter of taxonomy and relational mapping.

Can you map each of the eight, to one of the three? Yes.
Can you map each of the three, to one of the eight? No.

Metta,
Paul.

Thanks Paul. You understood my question.
If the statement one is "Yes" how the statement 2 is "No"
Can you give me an example?

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

Can you give me an example?

Sorry, I thought I just did. Perhaps someone else will have better luck.

Metta,
Paul.

[SarathW]

My understanding is that Sila, Samadhi and Panna have a broader coverage however the scope of Noble Eightfold Path is narrower in comparison.
For instance, there is Noble Tenfold factors.

[santa100]

Do you agree with the Dhammadinna's statement?

"The three aggregates are not included under the noble eightfold path, friend Visakha, but the noble eightfold path is included under the three aggregates. Right speech, right action, & right livelihood come under the aggregate of virtue. Right effort, right mindfulness, & right concentration come under the aggregate of concentration. Right view & right resolve come under the aggregate of discernment."

So basically, the 3 N8FP limbs of right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration have to join force to be counted as the Aggregate of concentration. N8FP's Right concentration limb alone by itself is not sufficient to be counted as the Aggregate of concentration. Hence Dhammadinna's statement above. For more detailed explanation, see the "three friends" simile described in Vism. XVI.95-102:

For the three states beginning with right effort, which are born together, are like the three friends who enter the park together. The object is like the champak tree in full blossom. Concentration, which cannot of its own nature bring about absorption by unification on the object, is like the man who could not pick the flower by raising his arm. Effort is like the companion who bent down, giving his back to mount upon. Mindfulness is like the friend who stood by, giving his shoulder for support. Just as standing on the back of the one and supporting himself on the other’s shoulder he could pick as many flowers as he wanted, so too, when energy accomplishes its function of exerting and when mindfulness accomplishes its function of preventing wobbling, with the help so obtained concentration can bring about absorption by unification on the object. So here in the concentration aggregate it is only concentration that is included as of the same kind. But effort and mindfulness are included because of their action [in assisting].

[form]

Greetings,

Do you agree with the Dhammadinna's statement?

Yes.

It's a matter of taxonomy and relational mapping.

Can you map each of the eight, to one of the three? Yes.
Can you map each of the three, to one of the eight? No.

Metta,
Paul.

Both set of conditions can exist simultaneously.

[Bundokji]

The eight fold path is made up of 8 individual component, this is how it is defined. Had it been made up of the three aggregates, then it would have been called "the three aggregate noble path".

Maybe the question should be: why it is more conducive to present the path as 8fold path rather than the three aggregates?

I think sequence is relevant to the three aggregates, but not to the 8fold path. As an eightfold path, it is likened to a spider where all the legs more in harmony together. To allow for linear explanations, the three aggregates appear more useful. For example, having right view as the forerunner allows for explaining how the path begins with right understanding (as conveyed by the wise) and ends with right understanding (as known by the wise, each for himself). Having concentration at the end shows the relationship between right view and right concentration. Having morality at the middle shows the important role moral conduct has to the practice, but not as an end in itself.

[SarathW]

-Can we have Sila without Samadhi and Panna?
-Can we have Samadhi without Sila and Panna?
-Can we have Panna without Sila and Samadhi?

[justindesilva]

-Can we have Sila without Samadhi and Panna?
-Can we have Samadhi without Sila and Panna?
-Can we have Panna without Sila and Samadhi?

It is like a fruit salad that said we cannot seperate one from the other. Sila samadhi pragna are mutually dependant.
And Sila, samadhi pragna are developed with arya ashtanga marga not in stages as is mentioned from 1 to 8.

[Bundokji]

-Can we have Sila without Samadhi and Panna?

Yes, but not as taught by the blessed one. You can see many people who have good moral conduct but lack tranquility and understanding

-Can we have Samadhi without Sila and Panna?

Devadatta?

-Can we have Panna without Sila and Samadhi?

No.

[Ontheway]

-Can we have Sila without Samadhi and Panna?
-Can we have Samadhi without Sila and Panna?
-Can we have Panna without Sila and Samadhi?

It is like a fruit salad that said we cannot seperate one from the other. Sila samadhi pragna are mutually dependant.
And Sila, samadhi pragna are developed with arya ashtanga marga not in stages as is mentioned from 1 to 8.

What you said is true.

Perhaps Venerable Kothmale Kumarakassapo Thero gives a better explanation on this matter.

[form]

This is just dividing eighfold path into three sections. What is the big fuss? There is a sutta where the Buddha himself explained, wholesome behaviour → concentration → wisdom. There is another sutta where he explained four kinds of approaches. Serenity follow by insight, in the reverse order, or in tandem, or just dry insight and suddenly boom.