What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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SDC
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Re: What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

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Padmist wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:46 am
SDC wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:45 am
Padmist wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:32 am And prescription marijuana, does that break the precept?
Prescription for what? Cancer patient so they can find their appetite? Parkinson’s patient so they can have reduced shaking? Or something else?
Opiods and marijuana.
I’m asking what is the reason for getting the marijuana prescription? Is it for a serious health issue?
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
Padmist
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Re: What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

Post by Padmist »

Image

I made this infographic, can you easily understand it?
Cause_and_Effect
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Re: What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

Post by Cause_and_Effect »

Padmist wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:48 am Image

I made this infographic, can you easily understand it?
If only life was so simple, and one could chart ones way to enlightenment.
"Therein monks, that Dimension should be known wherein the eye ceases and the perception of forms fades away...the ear... the nose...the tongue... the body ceases and the perception of touch fades away...

That Dimension should be known wherein mentality ceases and the perception of mind-objects fades away.
That Dimension should be known; that Dimension should be known."


(S. IV. 98) - The Dimension beyond the All
Padmist
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Re: What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

Post by Padmist »

Enlightenment, no.

For illegal narcos, do you understand the chart?
Cause_and_Effect
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Re: What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

Post by Cause_and_Effect »

I understand what you are trying to do with the chart but don't think it's a helpful approach and don't agree with everything that's on there.
I broadly agree with the opening thread post though.

I have shared this before which is the correct approach to the subject.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10 ... 01475/full

The issue is about psychedelics so there is no point including alcohol or narcotics in the discussion as they obviously have no basis as part of dhamma practice and no one would argue they do.

As mentioned, sometimes they may have medicinal uses however such as morphine being used as a pain reliever.
"Therein monks, that Dimension should be known wherein the eye ceases and the perception of forms fades away...the ear... the nose...the tongue... the body ceases and the perception of touch fades away...

That Dimension should be known wherein mentality ceases and the perception of mind-objects fades away.
That Dimension should be known; that Dimension should be known."


(S. IV. 98) - The Dimension beyond the All
Padmist
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Re: What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

Post by Padmist »

Well, I'm a regular guy doing this for Reddit and not capable of scientific smarty erudite work like that. Yes you can say your approach is superior.
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Re: What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

Post by justindesilva »

Red Belly wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:12 am As said above, they all break the precepts and should be stayed away from. Unfortunately there is a good bit of misinformation out there, even on Theravada forums, and so approach with caution. I'm guessing that it's usually put forward by people who want to justify their habits or addictions.
Sarakani sutta is about a person who was an alcohol addict until his last days, but after death was declared to have died as a sotapanna. Views on this analyse though sarakani was an addict he had been either a faith follwer (saddanussari) or a damma follower (dammanussari) while he would have made an effort to relieve his self from liquor. And as a result , at the time of death his mind had been on sadda or damma.
Talking about cannabis historically in Sri lanka it is believed that it had been used by workers on a mild formula to stabilise strength for long hours without a effect on brain drugged. Later it is said the british administrators used the same cannabis of larger quantities to weaken the sinhala worker cum soldier.
It is my view that if one takes a drug for a cure without being addicted and if he is a dammanusari or saddanusari of any religion for a desciplined life , then we cannot object.
Further if one takes a chemical or drug without affecting any quality arya ashtangika margaya even on a worldly scale, then too we cannot object because the motive or cetana cannot be doubted. If one takes drugs or alcohol for the sake of feeling mentally happy, then it is kamaccanda also creating thinamidda , uddacca kukkucca and vicikicca , all against samma sati or samma ditthi.
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Re: What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

Post by Cause_and_Effect »

Padmist wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:01 am Well, I'm a regular guy doing this for Reddit and not capable of scientific smarty erudite work like that. Yes you can say your approach is superior.
Well how about in straightforward terms; alcohol and narcotics are not comparable to psychedelics by any measure.
"Therein monks, that Dimension should be known wherein the eye ceases and the perception of forms fades away...the ear... the nose...the tongue... the body ceases and the perception of touch fades away...

That Dimension should be known wherein mentality ceases and the perception of mind-objects fades away.
That Dimension should be known; that Dimension should be known."


(S. IV. 98) - The Dimension beyond the All
Padmist
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Re: What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

Post by Padmist »

Wait, so we can take psychedelics as long as its prescribed for deleterious pain?
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Re: What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

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Graham Hancock: Psychedelics & Civilization
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Re: What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

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Padmist wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:41 am Wait, so we can take psychedelics as long as its prescribed for deleterious pain?
Psilocybin is now used in Canada for terminal Cancer patients. It’s not used for pain. It’s used for living in the moment and not fearing death - so as to enjoy what little time we have left.

These molecules are very similar to serotonin. Only a fool would call them a “illicit drug”. DMT, Psilocybin and Serotonin are extremely similar in molecular dimensions.

The positive effects of these substances on patients nearing death cannot be overemphasized.
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
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Re: What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

Post by thepea »

Padmist wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:27 am Okay, you're at the hospital, from a car accident, the doctor administers morphine and other opioids for pain. You've been asked for permission first. You consented. Has the precept been broken?
The majority here are confused with laylife and practicing the noble path.
To root out defilements one must strictly follow precepts, this means do not even take Advil for headache if you can manage. This would also include not taking sugars to ease pain or discomfort. One observes these precepts strictly to develop in samadhi, this allows one to go from observing reality outwardly to observing the realities going on within the framework of ones body. To view life, life is forbidden to be seen by the slave. Seeing life within and it’s arising and passing is insight(wisdom).
If you must retreat back to the outer world then do as you feel is right according to precepts. If you feel inclined to take Advil or drugs or alcohol, than go ahead. But just know that to visit the reality within you cannot use these substances. They are counter productive.
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Re: What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

Post by Sam Vara »

thepea wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:25 am
Padmist wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:27 am Okay, you're at the hospital, from a car accident, the doctor administers morphine and other opioids for pain. You've been asked for permission first. You consented. Has the precept been broken?
The majority here are confused with laylife and practicing the noble path.
To root out defilements one must strictly follow precepts, this means do not even take Advil for headache if you can manage.
Which precept says that?
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Re: What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

Post by Cause_and_Effect »

Pondera wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:14 am
Padmist wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:41 am Wait, so we can take psychedelics as long as its prescribed for deleterious pain?
Psilocybin is now used in Canada for terminal Cancer patients. It’s not used for pain. It’s used for living in the moment and not fearing death - so as to enjoy what little time we have left.

These molecules are very similar to serotonin. Only a fool would call them a “illicit drug”. DMT, Psilocybin and Serotonin are extremely similar in molecular dimensions.

The positive effects of these substances on patients nearing death cannot be overemphasized.
:goodpost:

The automatic "drugs all same, all bad, forbidden" crowd should really stop to reflect on the significance of this, that they are so close to neurotransmitters.

They switch the frequency of the brain.

You would have thought there would be more excitment and enthusiasm about the possibilities but apparently not from many.
For some (not all) meditators on the spiritual path these substances can be potentially some of the most interesting and profound tools, in the Universe.
"Therein monks, that Dimension should be known wherein the eye ceases and the perception of forms fades away...the ear... the nose...the tongue... the body ceases and the perception of touch fades away...

That Dimension should be known wherein mentality ceases and the perception of mind-objects fades away.
That Dimension should be known; that Dimension should be known."


(S. IV. 98) - The Dimension beyond the All
thepea
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Re: What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

Post by thepea »

Sam Vara wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:21 pm
thepea wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:25 am
Padmist wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:27 am Okay, you're at the hospital, from a car accident, the doctor administers morphine and other opioids for pain. You've been asked for permission first. You consented. Has the precept been broken?
The majority here are confused with laylife and practicing the noble path.
To root out defilements one must strictly follow precepts, this means do not even take Advil for headache if you can manage.
Which precept says that?
I’m speaking from my comprehension of buddhas teachings through practice in samadhi development.
Is this acceptable to do this?
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