What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Padmist
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What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

Post by Padmist »

Alcohol - Breaks the precepts

Narcos (Illegal drugs, cocaine, meth, crack, heroine) - Breaks the precepts

Psychedelics (LSD, ayahuasca, psylocibin, mushrooms, mescaline) - Does not break the precept.

Is that correct? I heard some Buddhists argue that the last one has therapeutic benefits and even spiritual. Is this true? Or does it break the precepts as well?
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Ceisiwr
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Re: What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

Post by Ceisiwr »

They all break the precept unless used for medicinal purposes.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Padmist
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Re: What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

Post by Padmist »

So LSD, Marijuana and Psylocibin are fine as long as you have a doctor's prescription?
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SDC
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Re: What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

Post by SDC »

They all break the precepts even if god hands them to you lol
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
SarathW
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Re: What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

Post by SarathW »

SDC wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:05 am They all break the precepts even if god hands them to you lol
:twothumbsup:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Red Belly
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Re: What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

Post by Red Belly »

As said above, they all break the precepts and should be stayed away from. Unfortunately there is a good bit of misinformation out there, even on Theravada forums, and so approach with caution. I'm guessing that it's usually put forward by people who want to justify their habits or addictions.
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SDC
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Re: What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

Post by SDC »

Red Belly wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:12 am As said above, they all break the precepts and should be stayed away from. Unfortunately there is a good bit of misinformation out there, even on Theravada forums, and so approach with caution. I'm guessing that it's usually put forward by people who want to justify their habits or addictions.
You have to turn away from the direction of renunciation when you take a substance to induce an experience fully rooted in a body that you’re supposed to relinquish. Plain and simple, the body is being used to partake in an ether that you did not discern on your own, that was not developed through your own efforts of doing the difficult and not-exciting work of following precepts and practicing restraint. A substance doesn’t do that part for you.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
Padmist
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Re: What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

Post by Padmist »

Okay, you're at the hospital, from a car accident, the doctor administers morphine and other opioids for pain. You've been asked for permission first. You consented. Has the precept been broken?
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Re: What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

Post by Padmist »

And prescription marijuana, does that break the precept?
SarathW
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Re: What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

Post by SarathW »

Padmist wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:27 am Okay, you're at the hospital, from a car accident, the doctor administers morphine and other opioids for pain. You've been asked for permission first. You consented. Has the precept been broken?
It is ok to use pain killers for health reasons, but monks have to use it sparingly.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

Post by cappuccino »

"The drinking of fermented & distilled liquors — when indulged in, developed, & pursued — is something that leads to hell, leads to rebirth as a common animal, leads to the realm of the hungry shades. The slightest of all the results coming from drinking fermented & distilled liquors is that, when one becomes a human being, it leads to mental derangement."


Vipaka Sutta: Results
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SDC
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Re: What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

Post by SDC »

Padmist wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:32 am And prescription marijuana, does that break the precept?
Prescription for what? Cancer patient so they can find their appetite? Parkinson’s patient so they can have reduced shaking? Or something else?
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
SarathW
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Re: What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

Post by SarathW »

SDC wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:45 am
Padmist wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:32 am And prescription marijuana, does that break the precept?
Prescription for what? Cancer patient so they can find their appetite? Parkinson’s patient so they can have reduced shaking? Or something else?
More than four out of 10 Australians are in favor of legalizing cannabis according to a national survey, indicating a level of support for legal marijuana that has nearly doubled in just six years.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ajherringt ... 98eb7d5cdc

The future world will be run by the democratic drug addicts!
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Cause_and_Effect
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Re: What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

Post by Cause_and_Effect »

Padmist wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:49 pm Alcohol - Breaks the precepts

Narcos (Illegal drugs, cocaine, meth, crack, heroine) - Breaks the precepts

Psychedelics (LSD, ayahuasca, psylocibin, mushrooms, mescaline) - Does not break the precept.

Is that correct? I heard some Buddhists argue that the last one has therapeutic benefits and even spiritual. Is this true? Or does it break the precepts as well?
Yes I would say this is correct as long as the psychedelics are used meditatively and not for aesthetics and sense pleasure enhancements.

However there is really no orthodox position on them regardless of what some might say because they are not talked about in the Pali Canon, unlike obvious intoxicants which cloud mindfulness like alcohol which would also cover narcotics.
"Therein monks, that Dimension should be known wherein the eye ceases and the perception of forms fades away...the ear... the nose...the tongue... the body ceases and the perception of touch fades away...

That Dimension should be known wherein mentality ceases and the perception of mind-objects fades away.
That Dimension should be known; that Dimension should be known."


(S. IV. 98) - The Dimension beyond the All
Padmist
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Re: What is the Orthodox Theravada position on alcohol, narcotics, psychedelics?

Post by Padmist »

SDC wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:45 am
Padmist wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:32 am And prescription marijuana, does that break the precept?
Prescription for what? Cancer patient so they can find their appetite? Parkinson’s patient so they can have reduced shaking? Or something else?
Opiods and marijuana.
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