Anicca-based meditation?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Post Reply
dpcalder
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:02 pm

Anicca-based meditation?

Post by dpcalder »

I have often used a form of meditation that I picked up on in my exploration of Vajrayana thought and practice, and it involves taking seriously the fact that all of mental phenomena are illusory, and that the "mind" itself is luminously aware and enjoys nonconceptual awareness that does not have what Pali texts consider "papanca," or conceptual proliferation. Is this a legitimate form of meditation in Theravada Buddhism?
User avatar
Goofaholix
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Anicca-based meditation?

Post by Goofaholix »

dpcalder wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:28 pm I have often used a form of meditation that I picked up on in my exploration of Vajrayana thought and practice, and it involves taking seriously the fact that all of mental phenomena are illusory, and that the "mind" itself is luminously aware and enjoys nonconceptual awareness that does not have what Pali texts consider "papanca," or conceptual proliferation. Is this a legitimate form of meditation in Theravada Buddhism?
Yes, its generally called Vipassana, or insight meditation.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
pegembara
Posts: 3465
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:39 am

Re: Anicca-based meditation?

Post by pegembara »

dpcalder wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:28 pm I have often used a form of meditation that I picked up on in my exploration of Vajrayana thought and practice, and it involves taking seriously the fact that all of mental phenomena are illusory, and that the "mind" itself is luminously aware and enjoys nonconceptual awareness that does not have what Pali texts consider "papanca," or conceptual proliferation. Is this a legitimate form of meditation in Theravada Buddhism?
Yes. Conditioned phenomena are conditioned("illusory").
"Bhikkhus, when a noble follower who has heard (the truth) sees thus, he finds estrangement in form, he finds estrangement in feeling, he finds estrangement in perception, he finds estrangement in determinations, he finds estrangement in consciousness.

"When he finds estrangement, passion fades out. With the fading of passion, he is liberated. When liberated, there is knowledge that he is liberated. He understands: 'Birth is exhausted, the holy life has been lived out, what can be done is done, of this there is no more beyond.'"

That is what the Blessed One said. The bhikkhus were glad, and they approved his words.

Now during this utterance, the hearts of the bhikkhus of the group of five were liberated from taints through clinging no more.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .nymo.html
“There is, monks, an unborn, unbecome, unmade, unconditioned. If, monks there were not that unborn, unbecome, unmade, unconditioned, you could not know an escape here from the born, become, made, and conditioned. But because there is an unborn, unbecome, unmade, unconditioned, therefore you do know an escape from the born, become, made, and conditioned.”
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
User avatar
Nicolas
Posts: 1295
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:59 pm
Location: Somerville, MA, USA

Re: Anicca-based meditation?

Post by Nicolas »

Pabbajjā Sutta (AN 10.59) wrote: Therefore, bhikkhus, you should train yourselves thus: [...] ‘Our minds will be strengthened in the perception of impermanence.’
Girimānanda Sutta (AN 10.60) wrote: And what, Ānanda, is the perception of impermanence? Here, having gone to the forest, to the foot of a tree, or to an empty hut, a bhikkhu reflects thus: ‘Form is impermanent, feeling is impermanent, perception is impermanent, volitional activities are impermanent, consciousness is impermanent.’ Thus he dwells contemplating impermanence in these five aggregates subject to clinging. This is called the perception of impermanence.
[...]
And what, Ānanda, is the perception of impermanence in all conditioned phenomena? Here, a bhikkhu is repelled, humiliated, and disgusted by all conditioned phenomena. This is called the perception of impermanence in all conditioned phenomena.
form
Posts: 3471
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:23 am

Re: Anicca-based meditation?

Post by form »

dpcalder wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:28 pm I have often used a form of meditation that I picked up on in my exploration of Vajrayana thought and practice, and it involves taking seriously the fact that all of mental phenomena are illusory, and that the "mind" itself is luminously aware and enjoys nonconceptual awareness that does not have what Pali texts consider "papanca," or conceptual proliferation. Is this a legitimate form of meditation in Theravada Buddhism?
Yes. If you have success, this is called signless meditation in some sutta.
dpcalder
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:02 pm

Re: Anicca-based meditation?

Post by dpcalder »

Nicolas wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:46 am
Pabbajjā Sutta (AN 10.59) wrote: Therefore, bhikkhus, you should train yourselves thus: [...] ‘Our minds will be strengthened in the perception of impermanence.’
Girimānanda Sutta (AN 10.60) wrote: And what, Ānanda, is the perception of impermanence? Here, having gone to the forest, to the foot of a tree, or to an empty hut, a bhikkhu reflects thus: ‘Form is impermanent, feeling is impermanent, perception is impermanent, volitional activities are impermanent, consciousness is impermanent.’ Thus he dwells contemplating impermanence in these five aggregates subject to clinging. This is called the perception of impermanence.
[...]
And what, Ānanda, is the perception of impermanence in all conditioned phenomena? Here, a bhikkhu is repelled, humiliated, and disgusted by all conditioned phenomena. This is called the perception of impermanence in all conditioned phenomena.
Thank you for this!

I looked up Aṅguttara Nikāya
The Book of the Tens
10.60. Girimānanda

^from which you got one of these quotes, and it says:

“He trains thus: ‘Contemplating impermanence, I will breathe in’; he trains thus: ‘Contemplating impermanence, I will breathe out.’ He trains thus: ‘Contemplating fading away, I will breathe in’; he trains thus: ‘Contemplating fading away, I will breathe out.’ He trains thus: ‘Contemplating cessation, I will breathe in’; he trains thus: ‘Contemplating cessation, I will breathe out.’ He trains thus: ‘Contemplating relinquishment, I will breathe in’; he trains thus: ‘Contemplating relinquishment, I will breathe out.’

This really caught my eye because it seems to basically be what I'm describing. Basically, is this describing a variant of anapanasati in which you focus on breathing and whenever mental phenomena arise, you simply cognize them as impermanent and fading?
Post Reply