Citta is dependently originated

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cappuccino
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Re: Citta is dependently originated

Post by cappuccino »

Coëmgenu wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:32 pm Your question about what "ceases" means is on-point, but you won't like the answer.
I know the answer


Translations are not everything
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cappuccino
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Re: Citta is dependently originated

Post by cappuccino »

That sphere should be known; that sphere should be known. (S. IV. 98)

:quote:
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Citta is dependently originated

Post by Coëmgenu »

cappuccino wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:33 pm
Coëmgenu wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:32 pm Your question about what "ceases" means is on-point, but you won't like the answer.
I know the answer


Translations are not everything
It's not an issue of translation. It's in the Pāli.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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cappuccino
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Re: Citta is dependently originated

Post by cappuccino »

Coëmgenu wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:35 pm
cappuccino wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:33 pm Translations are not everything
It's not an issue of translation. It's in the Pāli.
What is in the Pāli?


You need to translate to answer
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SDC
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Re: Citta is dependently originated

Post by SDC »

Coëmgenu wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:55 pm Overzealous moderation
I reported it. Stop crying. :cry: :tongue:
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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Sam Vara
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Re: Citta is dependently originated

Post by Sam Vara »

Over-zealous moderation has also just removed some personalised abuse, so please could people be a bit more kind? :anjali:
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Citta is dependently originated

Post by Coëmgenu »

That was uncalled for. I've just been accused of crying like a baby and you moderate me for calling him "immature?" That is, IMO, far too much sensitivity and a minor abuse of your position.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Citta is dependently originated

Post by Ceisiwr »

cappuccino wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:39 pm
Coëmgenu wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:35 pm
cappuccino wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:33 pm Translations are not everything
It's not an issue of translation. It's in the Pāli.
What is in the Pāli?


You need to translate to answer
That citta depends upon name and form.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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cappuccino
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Re: Citta is dependently originated

Post by cappuccino »

Ceisiwr wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:51 pm
cappuccino wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:39 pm What is in the Pāli?


You need to translate to answer
That citta depends upon name and form.
Near death experiences seem to suggest otherwise
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Sam Vara
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Re: Citta is dependently originated

Post by Sam Vara »

Coëmgenu wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:49 pm That was uncalled for. I've just been accused of crying like a baby and you moderate me for calling him "immature?" That is, IMO, far too much sensitivity and a minor abuse of your position.
Nobody said whose post had been removed for personalised abuse; it could have been cappuccino or SDC, or a third party. So you have needlessly outed yourself.

I didn't know who you were referring to, but thought it best to remove the post, especially as things have been getting a little heated in your micro-exchanges with cappuccino. But if you think you have been unfairly treated, then you can of course use the complaints procedure.
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Citta is dependently originated

Post by Coëmgenu »

What on earth is that? You start a thread in the suggestions box that everyone ignores?

It was an immature response that should be gone. If it's beyond the pale to call someone "immature," it's beyond the pale to tell someone to stop crying, insinuating that they are emotionally unstable. It is armchair psychology and contrary to the TOS even.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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Sam Vara
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Re: Citta is dependently originated

Post by Sam Vara »

Coëmgenu wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:59 pm What on earth is that? You start a thread in the suggestions box that everyone ignores?

It was an immature response that should be gone. If it's beyond the pale to call someone "immature," it's beyond the pale to tell someone to stop crying, insinuating that they are emotionally unstable.
:focus: , please. You can always PM me if you need to say something which doesn't directly relate to the thread. :anjali:
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Citta is dependently originated

Post by Coëmgenu »

Immature nonsense and petty point-counting aside, if we observe the Pāli in the linked pericope, we will see "samudaya" a part of a tappurisa compound in what I believe is the ablative case. Then we will see "citta" in the genitive. Then "samudaya" in the nominative. With an understanding of the functions of these declensions, an educated poster will not doubt either Ven Bodhi's or Ven Sujāto's translation here.

If I've mistaken the genitive for the dative, I'd like to know, if anyone here knows. I don't think I have, but I'm not a Pāli expert.
Last edited by Coëmgenu on Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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cappuccino
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Re: Citta is dependently originated

Post by cappuccino »

Coëmgenu wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:13 pm an educated poster will not doubt either Ven Bodhi's or Ven Sujāto's translation here.
fine however

the Blessed One would not say, 'A monk with no more effluents, on the break-up of the body, is annihilated, perishes, & does not exist after death.'

Yamaka Sutta
Last edited by cappuccino on Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Citta is dependently originated

Post by Coëmgenu »

A monk is not reducible to his mind as the "main part" of what he "is."
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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