Citta is dependently originated

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Coëmgenu
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Citta is dependently originated

Post by Coëmgenu »

Overzealous moderation removed a valuable post responding to a grave misconception. Here it is in its original context:

viewtopic.php?p=662774#p662774
cappuccino wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:54 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:57 pm Citta is dependently originated.
this is not found in the teaching
As usual, Cappuccino is completely incorrect here. Ceisiwr posted a sutta that explains how the citta is dependently originated but a moderator must have been asleep at the wheel while they deleted it.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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cappuccino
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Re: Citta is dependently originated

Post by cappuccino »

Coëmgenu wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:55 pm As usual, Cappuccino is completely incorrect here. Ceisiwr posted a sutta
I have to rely on overall understanding


Not necessarily translations
Last edited by cappuccino on Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Citta is dependently originated

Post by Ceisiwr »

My quote was from here
The mind originates from name and form.
Nāmarūpasamudayā cittassa samudayo;
When name and form cease, the mind ends.
nāmarūpanirodhā cittassa atthaṅgamo.
https://suttacentral.net/sn47.42/en/suj ... ript=latin
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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cappuccino
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Re: Citta is dependently originated

Post by cappuccino »

Ceisiwr wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:02 pm My quote was from here
Sujato has his view
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Citta is dependently originated

Post by Ceisiwr »

cappuccino wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:03 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:02 pm My quote was from here
Sujato has his view
It’s in the Pali
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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cappuccino
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Re: Citta is dependently originated

Post by cappuccino »

Ceisiwr wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:05 pm
cappuccino wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:03 pm Sujato has his view
It’s in the Pali
I know what his view is
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Citta is dependently originated

Post by Coëmgenu »

It's in the Pāli.

Ven Sujāto's opinions are irrelevant with regards to this.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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cappuccino
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Re: Citta is dependently originated

Post by cappuccino »

Coëmgenu wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:10 pm It's in the Pāli.
His translation
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Citta is dependently originated

Post by Coëmgenu »

He didn't write the Pāli.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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cappuccino
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Re: Citta is dependently originated

Post by cappuccino »

Coëmgenu wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:12 pm He didn't write the Pāli.
I don’t know what it says or means
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Re: Citta is dependently originated

Post by Coëmgenu »

Check Venerable Bodhi's translation then. It's the same.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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cappuccino
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Re: Citta is dependently originated

Post by cappuccino »

Bhikkhu Ñanananda wrote:"Wherefore, monks, that sphere should be known wherein the eye ceases and the perception of forms fades away... wherein the ear ceases and the perception of sounds fades away... the nose ceases and the perception of smell fades away... the tongue ceases and the perception of tastes fades away... the body ceases and the perception of touch fades away... the mind ceases and the perception of ideas fades away. That sphere should be known; that sphere should be known." (S. IV. 98)
:shrug:
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Re: Citta is dependently originated

Post by cappuccino »

What is meant by ceases?

What is meant by mind?
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Citta is dependently originated

Post by Coëmgenu »

cappuccino wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:28 pm
Bhikkhu Ñanananda wrote:"Wherefore, monks, that sphere should be known wherein the eye ceases and the perception of forms fades away... wherein the ear ceases and the perception of sounds fades away... the nose ceases and the perception of smell fades away... the tongue ceases and the perception of tastes fades away... the body ceases and the perception of touch fades away... the mind ceases and the perception of ideas fades away. That sphere should be known; that sphere should be known." (S. IV. 98)
:shrug:
Irrelevant, and not even the same sutta. Your question about what "ceases" means is on-point, but you won't like the answer.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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