Question about Girimānanda (on anicca meditation)

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Post Reply
dpcalder
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:02 pm

Question about Girimānanda (on anicca meditation)

Post by dpcalder »

Thank you for this!

I looked up Aṅguttara Nikāya
The Book of the Tens
10.60. Girimānanda

^from this, we read:

“He trains thus: ‘Contemplating impermanence, I will breathe in’; he trains thus: ‘Contemplating impermanence, I will breathe out.’ He trains thus: ‘Contemplating fading away, I will breathe in’; he trains thus: ‘Contemplating fading away, I will breathe out.’ He trains thus: ‘Contemplating cessation, I will breathe in’; he trains thus: ‘Contemplating cessation, I will breathe out.’ He trains thus: ‘Contemplating relinquishment, I will breathe in’; he trains thus: ‘Contemplating relinquishment, I will breathe out.’

This really caught my eye because it seems to basically be what I'm describing. Basically, is this describing a variant of anapanasati in which you focus on breathing and whenever mental phenomena arise, you simply cognize them as impermanent and fading? Would this include negative mental and emotional phenomena that arise during meditation?
User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 22395
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am
Location: Wales

Re: Question about Girimānanda (on anicca meditation)

Post by Ceisiwr »

dpcalder wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:54 pm Thank you for this!

I looked up Aṅguttara Nikāya
The Book of the Tens
10.60. Girimānanda

^from this, we read:

“He trains thus: ‘Contemplating impermanence, I will breathe in’; he trains thus: ‘Contemplating impermanence, I will breathe out.’ He trains thus: ‘Contemplating fading away, I will breathe in’; he trains thus: ‘Contemplating fading away, I will breathe out.’ He trains thus: ‘Contemplating cessation, I will breathe in’; he trains thus: ‘Contemplating cessation, I will breathe out.’ He trains thus: ‘Contemplating relinquishment, I will breathe in’; he trains thus: ‘Contemplating relinquishment, I will breathe out.’

This really caught my eye because it seems to basically be what I'm describing. Basically, is this describing a variant of anapanasati in which you focus on breathing and whenever mental phenomena arise, you simply cognize them as impermanent and fading? Would this include negative mental and emotional phenomena that arise during meditation?
Personally I think "dhammas" here relates to the arising and falling of the 7 enlightenment factors and hindrances.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
santa100
Posts: 6814
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:55 pm

Re: Question about Girimānanda (on anicca meditation)

Post by santa100 »

dpcalder wrote:Basically, is this describing a variant of anapanasati in which you focus on breathing and whenever mental phenomena arise, you simply cognize them as impermanent and fading? Would this include negative mental and emotional phenomena that arise during meditation?
In the four Tetrads of Anapanasati, the first three tetrads deal with both serenity and insight. The 4th one (which you provided above) deals entirely with insight. The negative mental and emotional parts were already being investigated during the 2nd (Contemplation of Feeling) and 3rd Tetrads (Contemplation of Mind). As for the 4th Tetrad, below are Ven. Bodhi's comments citing Comy's explanation in his 2 books: "Middle Length Discourses" and "In the Buddha's Words":
MLD wrote:this tetrad(the 4th Tetrad) deals entirely with insight, unlike the previous three, which deal with both serenity and insight. Contemplating fading away/cessation is insight into the impermanence of formations and as the supramundane path realising Nibbana, called the fading away of lust(i.e., dispassion/viraga) and the cessation of suffering. Contemplating relinquishment is giving up of defilements thru insight and the entering into Nibbana by attainment of the path.
ITBW wrote:Vism 290-291; Ppn 8:234-37: "Contemplating impermanence" (aniccanupassi) is contemplating the five aggregates as impermanent because they undergo rise and fall and change, or because they undergo momentary dissolution. This tetrad deals entirely with insight, unlike the other three, which can be interpreted by way of both serenity and insight. "Contemplating fading away" (viraganupassi) and "contemplating cessation" (nirodhanupassi) can be understood both as the insight into the momentary destruction and cessation of phenomena and as the supramundane path, which realizes Nibbana as the fading away of lust (viraga, dispassion) and the cessation of formations. "Contemplating relinquishment" (patinissagganupassi ) is giving up (pariccaga) or abandoning (pahana) defilements through insight and entering into (pakkhandana) Nibbana by attainment of the path.
pegembara
Posts: 3465
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:39 am

Re: Question about Girimānanda (on anicca meditation)

Post by pegembara »

dpcalder wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:54 pm Thank you for this!

I looked up Aṅguttara Nikāya
The Book of the Tens
10.60. Girimānanda

^from this, we read:

“He trains thus: ‘Contemplating impermanence, I will breathe in’; he trains thus: ‘Contemplating impermanence, I will breathe out.’ He trains thus: ‘Contemplating fading away, I will breathe in’; he trains thus: ‘Contemplating fading away, I will breathe out.’ He trains thus: ‘Contemplating cessation, I will breathe in’; he trains thus: ‘Contemplating cessation, I will breathe out.’ He trains thus: ‘Contemplating relinquishment, I will breathe in’; he trains thus: ‘Contemplating relinquishment, I will breathe out.’

This really caught my eye because it seems to basically be what I'm describing. Basically, is this describing a variant of anapanasati in which you focus on breathing and whenever mental phenomena arise, you simply cognize them as impermanent and fading? Would this include negative mental and emotional phenomena that arise during meditation?
Yes. Basically, everything(rupa, vedana, sanna, sankhara, and vinnana) that arises will pass away. This includes breathing.
Sabbe sankhara anicca/dukkha/anatta.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
dpcalder
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:02 pm

Re: Question about Girimānanda (on anicca meditation)

Post by dpcalder »

santa100 wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:29 am
dpcalder wrote:Basically, is this describing a variant of anapanasati in which you focus on breathing and whenever mental phenomena arise, you simply cognize them as impermanent and fading? Would this include negative mental and emotional phenomena that arise during meditation?
In the four Tetrads of Anapanasati, the first three tetrads deal with both serenity and insight. The 4th one (which you provided above) deals entirely with insight. The negative mental and emotional parts were already being investigated during the 2nd (Contemplation of Feeling) and 3rd Tetrads (Contemplation of Mind). As for the 4th Tetrad, below are Ven. Bodhi's comments citing Comy's explanation in his 2 books: "Middle Length Discourses" and "In the Buddha's Words":
MLD wrote:this tetrad(the 4th Tetrad) deals entirely with insight, unlike the previous three, which deal with both serenity and insight. Contemplating fading away/cessation is insight into the impermanence of formations and as the supramundane path realising Nibbana, called the fading away of lust(i.e., dispassion/viraga) and the cessation of suffering. Contemplating relinquishment is giving up of defilements thru insight and the entering into Nibbana by attainment of the path.
ITBW wrote:Vism 290-291; Ppn 8:234-37: "Contemplating impermanence" (aniccanupassi) is contemplating the five aggregates as impermanent because they undergo rise and fall and change, or because they undergo momentary dissolution. This tetrad deals entirely with insight, unlike the other three, which can be interpreted by way of both serenity and insight. "Contemplating fading away" (viraganupassi) and "contemplating cessation" (nirodhanupassi) can be understood both as the insight into the momentary destruction and cessation of phenomena and as the supramundane path, which realizes Nibbana as the fading away of lust (viraga, dispassion) and the cessation of formations. "Contemplating relinquishment" (patinissagganupassi ) is giving up (pariccaga) or abandoning (pahana) defilements through insight and entering into (pakkhandana) Nibbana by attainment of the path.
Very interesting. Thank you for this! Is it okay for me to focus on one topic at a time? I find this method of insight into mental phenomena by contemplating impermanence, when phenomena arise, very helpful.
santa100
Posts: 6814
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:55 pm

Re: Question about Girimānanda (on anicca meditation)

Post by santa100 »

dpcalder wrote:Is it okay for me to focus on one topic at a time? I find this method of insight into mental phenomena by contemplating impermanence, when phenomena arise, very helpful.
Sure, why not? Remember the suttas not being specific in the minute detailed implementation is a feature, not a limitation! They allow enough room for the practitioner to conduct their own scientific experiment just like scientists or engineers to be able to derive the best formula most suitable for themselves.
AN 8.53 wrote:"As for the qualities of which you may know, 'These qualities lead to dispassion, not to passion; to being unfettered, not to being fettered; to shedding, not to accumulating; to modesty, not to self-aggrandizement; to contentment, not to discontent; to seclusion, not to entanglement; to aroused persistence, not to laziness; to being unburdensome, not to being burdensome': You may categorically hold, 'This is the Dhamma, this is the Vinaya, this is the Teacher's instruction.'"
Post Reply