I Believe in Kamma and its Effects - Poll

[Nicholas Weeks]

This is so edifying - right?

[Sobeh]

My answer is to cite the Acintita Sutta (AN 4.77) as well as the Kamma Sutta (SN 35.145). Unfortunately, these were not in the list of possible responses. Perhaps an "Other; please specify" selection?

[Nicholas Weeks]

My answer is to cite the Acintita Sutta: Unconjecturable (AN 4.77).

The poll asks nothing about how kamma-vipaka works in detail, just what you believe about kamma & its effects.

[acinteyyo]

I would suggest trying to stop believing and having all these various 'positions' and rather try to start seeing!

"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origin, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origin, such its disappearance; such is perception... such are mental fabrications... such is consciousness, such its origin, such its disappearance.' Because of this, I say, a Tathagata — with the ending, fading out, cessation, renunciation, & relinquishment of all construings, all excogitations, all I-making & mine-making & obsession with conceit — is, through lack of clinging/sustenance, released."

If there would be the option: "Fie on all "I believe..." polls", I would vote for it without hesitation.

best wishes, acinteyyo

[Sobeh]

Yup - edited post in the meantime to include the rest of my answer.

I have no problem with polls, but I do have a problem with poorly constructed polls.

[Nicholas Weeks]

I would suggest trying to stop believing and having all these various 'positions' and rather try to start seeing!

"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origin, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origin, such its disappearance; such is perception... such are mental fabrications... such is consciousness, such its origin, such its disappearance.' Because of this, I say, a Tathagata — with the ending, fading out, cessation, renunciation, & relinquishment of all construings, all excogitations, all I-making & mine-making & obsession with conceit — is, through lack of clinging/sustenance, released."

If there would be the option: "Fie on all "I believe..." polls", I would vote for it without hesitation.

best wishes, acinteyyo

You do not care for faith or belief in the Dhamma I gather?

[Nicholas Weeks]

Yup - edited post in the meantime to include the rest of my answer.

I have no problem with polls, but I do have a problem with poorly constructed polls.

Please construct one correctly - I want to learn.

[retrofuturist]

What is it the texts say... "now and in the future"?

Metta,
Retro.

[acinteyyo]

I would suggest trying to stop believing and having all these various 'positions' and rather try to start seeing!

"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"
"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origin, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origin, such its disappearance; such is perception... such are mental fabrications... such is consciousness, such its origin, such its disappearance.' Because of this, I say, a Tathagata — with the ending, fading out, cessation, renunciation, & relinquishment of all construings, all excogitations, all I-making & mine-making & obsession with conceit — is, through lack of clinging/sustenance, released."

If there would be the option: "Fie on all "I believe..." polls", I would vote for it without hesitation.

You do not care for faith or belief in the Dhamma I gather?

Faith and beliefs do have their avail. The thing is, if one is satisified with having faith and beliefs, one won't ever put enough effort in seeing things as they are, thus one won't ever go beyond faith and beliefs.

[...]this Dhamma is visible here-&-now, not subject to time, inviting all to come & see, pertinent, to be known by the wise for themselves

Why settle for beliefing in this Dhamma, which is uncertain, which is nothing more but mere assumption, suppositon, guesswork, when this Dhamma is visible here & now, to known by the wise?

best wishes, acinteyyo

[Nicholas Weeks]

"Settling" for belief is your unwarrented assumption acinteyyo. But since faith comes first, there is nothing wrong about saying belief has value, as it is. When one chooses to verify the Dhamma, fine, do so when one is ready. But to sneer at those at the lower stage of faith and belief will not help your superior practice of seeing things as they are.

[mikenz66]

When one chooses to verify the Dhamma, fine, do so when one is ready. But to sneer at those at the lower stage of faith and belief will not help your superior practice of seeing things as they are.

Yes, as in this sutta:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Excellent, Sariputta. Excellent. Those who have not known, seen, penetrated, realized, or attained it by means of discernment would have to take it on conviction in others that the faculty of conviction... persistence... mindfulness... concentration... discernment, when developed & pursued, gains a footing in the Deathless, has the Deathless as its goal & consummation; whereas those who have known, seen, penetrated, realized, & attained it by means of discernment would have no doubt or uncertainty that the faculty of conviction... persistence... mindfulness... concentration... discernment, when developed & pursued, gains a footing in the Deathless, has the Deathless as its goal & consummation."

Mike

[Annapurna]

My answer is to cite the Acintita Sutta (AN 4.77) as well as the Kamma Sutta (SN 35.145). Unfortunately, these were not in the list of possible responses. Perhaps an "Other; please specify" selection?

For our reading convenience it would be lovely if you could provide the quote in your post, so that we don't have to leave the page...

Please??

[Annapurna]

I voted for in all lifetimes.

Even IF there were no rebirth in a literal sense, and only one life for each being, as in the Christian sense, it is easy to see that things parents did will affect their children and grandchildren, quite like here, only that Buddhist don't think Kamma is about getting punished or rewarded. It`s just dependant arising.

I ....am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,

But the wording is actually secondary.

The result is always the same: do evil things, and it will backfire badly.

Do good things, you will inherit "good" kamma.

And the results can be far reaching. They often ripen much later, in generations to come.

[mikenz66]

My answer is to cite the Acintita Sutta (AN 4.77) as well as the Kamma Sutta (SN 35.145). Unfortunately, these were not in the list of possible responses. Perhaps an "Other; please specify" selection?

For our reading convenience it would be lovely if you could provide the quote in your post, so that we don't have to leave the page...

Please??

How about a link?
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mike

[Annapurna]

Very kind of you, Mike! Ty!