who is the god of israel

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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salayatananirodha
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who is the god of israel

Post by salayatananirodha »

was skimming over this https://www.redstate.com/wag/2020/06/21 ... ay-sermon/
i used to be christian and even did some bible study but i dont remember much of it anymore
if there is actually a deity instructing its followers to cause plagues on its behalf, who might it be? interested in actual historic references and dhamma theory. i think it's easier to understand christians through buddhist texts than just dismissing their texts.
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


links:
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/index.htm
http://thaiforestwisdom.org/canonical-texts/
http://seeingthroughthenet.net/wp-conte ... _Heart.pdf
https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: who is the god of israel

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

I participate in this forum using Google Translator. http://translate.google.com.br

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DNS
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Re: who is the god of israel

Post by DNS »

Who is the god of Israel? YHWH of course. Anglicized to Jehovah.

Some historians have theorized that the biblical Jews were not really that monotheistic. They believed that Jehovah was their god, the god of Israel and that other nations had their own gods, not Jehovah. As time went on and the Jews left Israel, it gradually became a world religion and therefore, Jehovah became a god for all people.
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Jason
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Re: who is the god of israel

Post by Jason »

salayatananirodha wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:23 pm was skimming over this https://www.redstate.com/wag/2020/06/21 ... ay-sermon/
i used to be christian and even did some bible study but i dont remember much of it anymore
if there is actually a deity instructing its followers to cause plagues on its behalf, who might it be? interested in actual historic references and dhamma theory. i think it's easier to understand christians through buddhist texts than just dismissing their texts.
I think a much better thing to read is Without Buddha I Could Not be a Christian.
"Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" (AN 7.58).

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salayatananirodha
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Re: who is the god of israel

Post by salayatananirodha »

i mean which god might he be in buddhist theory
not sakka, i dont think, since sakka was not angry in his previous life
responding to the other point,
i feel like understanding the dhamma one would not go to another religion
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


links:
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/index.htm
http://thaiforestwisdom.org/canonical-texts/
http://seeingthroughthenet.net/wp-conte ... _Heart.pdf
https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
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DNS
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Re: who is the god of israel

Post by DNS »

salayatananirodha wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:54 pm i mean which god might he be in buddhist theory
1. Possibly a nimmanarati deva, since they delight in their creations, are still in the sense world, so could be somewhat jealous of other devas.
2. Or possibly an asura, since he is wrathful and jealous.
3. Or possbily a complete fiction.
from 10 commandments" wrote:You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
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Re: who is the god of israel

Post by DooDoot »

An asura, with the doctrine of punishment. Refer to SN 11.5, which distinguishes between the doctrine of devas & the doctrine of asuras. Possibly why Jesus attempted to put lipstick in this pig and give it a facelift to being a 'deva' or 'brahma' but it didn't work. :pig:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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whynotme
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Re: who is the god of israel

Post by whynotme »

DNS wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:01 pm Who is the god of Israel? YHWH of course. Anglicized to Jehovah.

Some historians have theorized that the biblical Jews were not really that monotheistic. They believed that Jehovah was their god, the god of Israel and that other nations had their own gods, not Jehovah. As time went on and the Jews left Israel, it gradually became a world religion and therefore, Jehovah became a god for all people.
Since Christianity is a world religion, the kamma of Jesus must be really good to push it to that point.

Some said Jesus is either a reincarnation of Metteyya, the next Buddha to be, or instructed by him. And so the original of Christianity is actually Buddhism. Jesus is said travelled to India to learn yoga and Buddhism.
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binocular
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Re: who is the god of israel

Post by binocular »

whynotme wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:54 amSince Christianity is a world religion, the kamma of Jesus must be really good to push it to that point.
Case in point.

Christianity has indeed been a very popular and influential religion, so, kammically, Jesus has this going for him. On the other hand, my people who claim to be Christians, don't really believe in Jesus (or Jehovah). So this makes for a questionable fame.

Then there are all those people who utter the words "Jesus" or "Jesus Christ" and similar Christian terms, but who are not Christian and who don't believe in Jesus. This has got to be part of Jesus' kamma, although I have no idea, how. (For example, I probably utter the words "Jesus Christ" more times per day than the average Christian; I say those words pretty much whenever something goes mildly wrong or when I'm surprised.)
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
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Re: who is the god of israel

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Great Brahma (Maha brahma)

The Thirty-one Planes of Existence
Last edited by cappuccino on Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Zdenek
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Re: who is the god of israel

Post by Zdenek »

salayatananirodha wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:23 pm was skimming over this https://www.redstate.com/wag/2020/06/21 ... ay-sermon/
i used to be christian and even did some bible study but i dont remember much of it anymore
if there is actually a deity instructing its followers to cause plagues on its behalf, who might it be? interested in actual historic references and dhamma theory. i think it's easier to understand christians through buddhist texts than just dismissing their texts.
See Exodus 3:14 NIV:
God said to Moses, “I am who I am.* This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’
* Or I will be what I will be

Good outline can be following video from Edgar Cayce performed by McMillin:
whynotme
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Re: who is the god of israel

Post by whynotme »

binocular wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:53 pm
whynotme wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:54 amSince Christianity is a world religion, the kamma of Jesus must be really good to push it to that point.
Case in point.

Christianity has indeed been a very popular and influential religion, so, kammically, Jesus has this going for him. On the other hand, my people who claim to be Christians, don't really believe in Jesus (or Jehovah). So this makes for a questionable fame.

Then there are all those people who utter the words "Jesus" or "Jesus Christ" and similar Christian terms, but who are not Christian and who don't believe in Jesus. This has got to be part of Jesus' kamma, although I have no idea, how. (For example, I probably utter the words "Jesus Christ" more times per day than the average Christian; I say those words pretty much whenever something goes mildly wrong or when I'm surprised.)
Even the kamma of the Buddha is not enough to keep all ppl who say paying homage to Buddha to believe in him, then of course Jesus is not on the level of Buddha. If we use worldly measurement, then the name of Jesus Christ is much more popular, maybe the most popular name in the world. He needs to fix this, the name of the disciple should not be more well known than the teacher.

OTOH, maybe all ppl who died in name of Christianity like crusader, witch hunter... etc will be a burden on Jesus kamma. He is not directly respond for it, but indirectly it is his kamma of creating Christianity. Not a strong direct kamma, but still in his name, in his work.
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Re: who is the god of israel

Post by No_Mind »

DNS wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:01 pm Who is the god of Israel? YHWH of course. Anglicized to Jehovah.

Some historians have theorized that the biblical Jews were not really that monotheistic. They believed that Jehovah was their god, the god of Israel and that other nations had their own gods, not Jehovah. As time went on and the Jews left Israel, it gradually became a world religion and therefore, Jehovah became a god for all people.
To add to what David wrote above, this might be some help. Cecil B De Mille did a fine job.

Before Exodus



After Exodus



:namaste:
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dylanj
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Re: who is the god of israel

Post by dylanj »

i think it's likely the old testament & new testament gods are different, assuming both exist

the god of the old testament shows a lot of qualities similar to those of asuras or demons or titans, jealousy, anger, possessiveness, pride, etc.

in the new testament God is a more benevolent being with less obviously human qualities & we know from Buddhist cosmology (mahāsamāya sutta) that there are gods of love & compassion at higher levels of the divine hierarchy
Born, become, arisen – made, prepared, short-lived
Bonded by decay and death – a nest for sickness, perishable
Produced by seeking nutriment – not fit to take delight in


Departure from this is peaceful – beyond reasoning and enduring
Unborn, unarisen – free from sorrow and stain
Ceasing of all factors of suffering – stilling of all preparations is bliss
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Re: who is the god of israel

Post by Coëmgenu »

dylanj wrote: Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:43 am the god of the old testament shows a lot of qualities similar to those of asuras or demons or titans, jealousy, anger, possessiveness, pride, etc.

in the new testament God is a more benevolent being with less obviously human qualities & we know from Buddhist cosmology (mahāsamāya sutta) that there are gods of love & compassion at higher levels of the divine hierarchy
I don't want to be overly contrarian, but consider, Jesus invented eternal hell. It isn't a feature of his previous Judaism. The God of the Old Testament was content to let all his creations wander for eternity in sheol after death. Jesus introduces the notion of a "special heaven club," IMO likely influenced by Greek mystery religions. Early Christianity, how Jesus theoretically established it (we have to say "theoretically" because some insist Jesus didn't exist), was a secretive religion with a series of priestly initiations into deeper levels of "the mysteries," culminating in the early ur-eucharist tradition, the mystery of mysteries. If you didn't have the ordination initiating you into a certain level of the community, you were not aware of those elements of Christian doctrine and practice. Very different from the modern religion, but very similar to Greek mystery cults, which promised their followers a special afterlife, exemption from normal death, and higher knowledge of "the mystery," by that mystery Orphic or Eleusinian.
The thus come thus gone,
who has neither came nor went,
enthroned on men’s breath,

like the still turtle,
withdraws six appendages
and is clothed in light --

illuminating
the unilluminated
with three shining cures.
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