evil person or just evil actions?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
chris98e
Posts: 131
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:52 am

evil person or just evil actions?

Post by chris98e »

I have to disagree with the statment that there is no such thing as an evil person just an evil deed. I believe once a person has developed evil behavioral :buddha2: patterns then I consider that person to be evil. Whether a being is born inherently evil or not, or good or not, or both good and evil is a different disucssion. But once a person has developed evil behavioral pattererns I believe that person is evil.
David2
Posts: 930
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:09 pm
Location: Germany

Re: evil person or just evil actions?

Post by David2 »

A mass murderer can still become an arahant -- so how can he be inherently evil?
chris98e
Posts: 131
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:52 am

Re: evil person or just evil actions?

Post by chris98e »

chris98e wrote:Whether a being is born inherently evil or not, or good or not, or both good and evil is a different disucssion.
But once a person has developed evil behavioral pattererns I believe that person is evil. Not inherently evil but evil. :buddha2:
David2
Posts: 930
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:09 pm
Location: Germany

Re: evil person or just evil actions?

Post by David2 »

Imo it's better to see the suffering of those people than the "evilness".

Nobody is completely happy while and after doing unwholesome actions.

As the Dalai Lama has often said,
there is one thing all beings have in common:
They prefer not-suffering to suffering.
User avatar
Goofaholix
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: evil person or just evil actions?

Post by Goofaholix »

chris98e wrote:But once a person has developed evil behavioral pattererns I believe that person is evil. Not inherently evil but evil. :buddha2:
This is just an example of cause and affect, you observe behavioral pattererns and this gives rise to a judgement of the "person" exhibiting those behavioral pattererns.

In terms of the teaching of not self what is "person"?

In terms of the teaching of the 5 aggregates what is "person"?

If the behavioral pattererns change at what point does "person" cease to be evil? at what point does your judgement change? do both happen at the same time?
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
User avatar
SeekingDharma
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:48 pm

Re: evil person or just evil actions?

Post by SeekingDharma »

I suppose there is no better example than Angulimala (MN 86). He became enlightened and certainly wasn't evil past that point. Speaking in general, though, I think it is hard to turn the evil ship around. After enduring suffering, or just being inclined towards misdeed, most are unlikely to change without some sort of compelling influence.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Last edited by SeekingDharma on Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
chris98e
Posts: 131
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:52 am

Re: evil person or just evil actions?

Post by chris98e »

David2 wrote:it's better to see the suffering of those people than the "evilness".
No its better to move out of that evil person's way while he is trying to inflict is evil actions on to everyone around him. :anjali:
chris98e
Posts: 131
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:52 am

Re: evil person or just evil actions?

Post by chris98e »

Goofaholix wrote:
chris98e wrote:In terms of the teaching of not self what is "person"?
The statment of not self from the Buddha as the self is impermanent and connected to every other living being in existence. As for your many questions just ask one or make a statment. :reading:
chris98e
Posts: 131
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:52 am

Re: evil person or just evil actions?

Post by chris98e »

I see the assertion of not self from the Buddha as the self is impermanent and connected to every other living being [thus no (single soul)] in existence. As for your many questions just ask one or make a statment.
David2
Posts: 930
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:09 pm
Location: Germany

Re: evil person or just evil actions?

Post by David2 »

chris98e wrote:
David2 wrote:it's better to see the suffering of those people than the "evilness".
No its better to move out of that evil person's way while he is trying to inflict is evil actions on to everyone around him. :anjali:
It's even better to try to prevent him from doing unwholesome actions, if possible.
chris98e
Posts: 131
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:52 am

Re: evil person or just evil actions?

Post by chris98e »

David2 wrote:It's even better to try to prevent him from doing unwholesome actions, if possible.
Yeah I'll just pull out my majic wand touch people with it and prevent them from doing evil actions. :smile:
David2
Posts: 930
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:09 pm
Location: Germany

Re: evil person or just evil actions?

Post by David2 »

chris98e wrote:
David2 wrote:It's even better to try to prevent him from doing unwholesome actions, if possible.
Yeah I'll just pull out my majic wand touch people with it and prevent them from doing evil actions. :smile:
Well, the Buddha prevented many people from doing unwholesome actions.
The farther you are on the path, the easier it gets to do this.
santa100
Posts: 6811
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:55 pm

Re: evil person or just evil actions?

Post by santa100 »

Unwholesome behaviors if being reinforced over and over again will become a very strong habit energy that is difficult to fix. Evilness could be a form of addiction, a horrible one. I'm sure there're moments when a serial killer or serial rapist must've felt quite guilty and ashamed of their actions, but their habit energy is so strong that they keep on repeating those terrible deeds. That's why the Four Right Exertions (cattārimāni sammappadhānāni) lists its 1st item as: "the non-arising [anuppādāya] of evil, unskillful qualities that have not yet arisen", because once something's become a habit, it'd be 10 times or 100 times harder to get rid off..
chris98e
Posts: 131
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:52 am

Re: evil person or just evil actions?

Post by chris98e »

David2 wrote:Well, the Buddha prevented many people from doing unwholesome actions.
The farther you are on the path, the easier it gets to do this.

The Buddha was only able to directly help the people who asked for his help. But not directly to those who did not ask for his help. :heart:
David2
Posts: 930
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:09 pm
Location: Germany

Re: evil person or just evil actions?

Post by David2 »

chris98e wrote: The Buddha was only able to directly help the people who asked for his help. But not directly to those who did not ask for his help. :heart:
He helped some people only with his noble presence, or his noble actions... just with being a good example for others.

You can't help anybody directly... help is always indirect.
Post Reply