Suicidal

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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barcsimalsi
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Suicidal

Post by barcsimalsi »

In many religions we always learn that a person who commit suicide will bring him/herself to hell in the after life.

But what i learn from the dhamma tells me that hell is mean for those whose actions are intend to harm others.

So if a person who commit suicide never conflict with harming anyone but just to end his/her own suffering, how does it justify the suicidal-hell connection?
David2
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Re: Suicidal

Post by David2 »

You can't end suffering with suicide, you are actually increasing the suffering.
With suicide you are harming not only others but also yourself.
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cooran
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Re: Suicidal

Post by cooran »

These threads and articles may be of interest:

Suicide and Euthanasia according to Theravada
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 87&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Suicide was a phenomenon known to the Buddha and commented on by him. On one occasion a group of monks doing the meditation on the repulsiveness of the body, without proper guidance, became depressed and killed themselves. When informed that the two lovers had killed themselves so that "they could be together for eternity" the Buddha commented that these actions were based on desire and ignorance. His attitude to suicide is clear from the Vinaya where it is an offence entailing expulsion from the Sangha for a monk to encourage or assist someone to suicide, and thus on a par with murder. Consequently, in Theravada it is considered as a breach of the first Precept, motivated by similar mental states as murder (loathing, fear, anger, desire to escape a problem) only directed towards oneself rather than another.
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/dha ... /fdd30.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Buddhism and Suicide - Damian Keown
http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma/suicide.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DFFA Suicide and Euthanasia according to Theravada
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 62&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
Nori
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Re: Suicidal

Post by Nori »

If one wanted to commit suicide, then probably, he is already in "hell", so to speak.

It is a state of great aversion, a nonacceptance of the current state of affairs; an unwholesome mental state.

This may be due to unwholesome qualities/conditions (e.g. pride, greed, etc.)

According to the Buddha, even if one killed himself in this state, life would not end there, nor would the unwholesome conditions. They would only continue on to the next existence.

The grief, and the unwholesome conditions would only continue into the next existence and he would remain in the same sort of hell. (At least, I believe, this is what he taught..)
barcsimalsi
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Re: Suicidal

Post by barcsimalsi »

I appreciate all the reply and will surely take my time to read those sites cooran just post.

Here's one very common unlucky example of what i see;

A person who is old, terribly ill, bedridden with no hope of recovering.
Beside him stood a few family members who took their turn taking care of him night and day sacrificing their own needs of career, property and other things.
In the mind of this old man says:
My life have come to a point where i have to suffer till the day i die.
With my prolonging breath, all the loved-one were held to be distress, pain and sorrow.
If only death can bring a stop to my own suffering.
If only death can free the loved-one from this sorrowful state.

Through Buddhism we were remind that human can't skip aging, illness and death so if one's life is already suffering and cause others to suffer as well, will suicide save the situation.
santa100
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Re: Suicidal

Post by santa100 »

Instead of thinking about committing suicide, the old man should spend whatever energy he
has left learning and practicing the Dhamma. It's due to kamma that he has to suffer a long, slow, and painful way of death, just like it's due to kamma that some others have quick and peaceful death. On the part of the family members, not only they should take care of him physically, they should also try their best to spread the words of the Buddha to the dying man, read him suttas, let him hear audio lectures of great teachers, inviting virtuous monks to visit and pray together, etc...With strong enough sincerity and effort, a seemingly horrible kamma could take some surprising turn. Then he won't have to resort to that unwholesome solution.
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Kim OHara
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Re: Suicidal

Post by Kim OHara »

barcsimalsi wrote:I appreciate all the reply and will surely take my time to read those sites cooran just post.

Here's one very common unlucky example of what i see;

A person who is old, terribly ill, bedridden with no hope of recovering.
...
santa100's response is good for anyone actually in that situation, but I think that worrying and arguing about imaginary situations is not a good use of your time. Doing your best with what is in your life now is the best practice for dealing with difficult situations that may arise later.

:namaste:
Kim
barcsimalsi
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Re: Suicidal

Post by barcsimalsi »

Thanks, i got my question answered.
tea leaf
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Re: Suicidal

Post by tea leaf »

How does karma judge whether a person deserves to go to hell or not? If a person is contemplating suicide he/she, as one person stated, is already in hell. So where does compassion come into play in such a situation? Does karma have compassion for the person? Is it all cut and dry?
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Kim OHara
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Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Suicidal

Post by Kim OHara »

tea leaf wrote:How does karma judge whether a person deserves to go to hell or not? If a person is contemplating suicide he/she, as one person stated, is already in hell. So where does compassion come into play in such a situation? Does karma have compassion for the person? Is it all cut and dry?
Hello, tea leaf,
Karma/kamma is more like the force of gravity than a judge sitting in court. It therefore has no compassion - and no malice, either. It is just ... consequences, like ripples in a pond when you drop a stone in the water.
Read more about it here http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dham ... kamma.html for a better understanding.

:namaste:
Kim
tea leaf
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Re: Suicidal

Post by tea leaf »

But I have been told my monks that kamma knows your motives for doing things, and so acts accordingly. If this is true, then kamma has awareness, it judges. How can kamma even view an act one way or another if it doesn't have awareness? If it is not Consciousness? How does it even know what your actions are if it is not Aware and Conscious?
perkele
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Re: Suicidal

Post by perkele »

tea leaf wrote:But I have been told my monks that kamma knows your motives for doing things, and so acts accordingly. If this is true, then kamma has awareness, it judges. How can kamma even view an act one way or another if it doesn't have awareness? If it is not Consciousness? How does it even know what your actions are if it is not Aware and Conscious?
It is not kamma "who" knows your intentions. It is you.
It is possible to be quite confused about one's own intentions and to deceive oneself with all kinds of rationalizations. "I'm doing this only for the greater good", "The others would be better off if I died, so I'll just kill myself", "The jews are conspiring to take over the earth, so we should eradicate them", etc.
However, such self-deception is not totally opaque. You can see through it and know that your intention is not good.
You can deceive yourself. However, you can't do it indefinitely. In the end all self-deception will break down. Because you just want to know what you are doing and where it brings you. It's just a natural inclination.
You are the one who will see the results of your bad and good actions. And you are the one who judges all of that, if anyone.
Now someone might say "Okay. If it's only me, then I'll just do what I want and always say that it's good." But it doesn't work that way. "You" are impermanent. "You" change. "You" suffer. "You" will not forever be content and happy about having sent people into concentration camps to die (don't say you did it, just a silly example), or about having killed yourself, trying to run away from a bad situation. Because that "you" does not exist anymore. It's always changing. And how exactly it is changing, that "you" don't know. But you are naturally inclined to find out. So "you" will know the consequences of your actions, be they pleasent or painful, even if that "you" is transient and is not the same as it was. And at the root of all your actions are your intentions, and so in the end they govern your experience. "You" will feel the result.

That's my take on it.
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