Is it possible?
Thanks.
can i achieve nirvana when i don't believe in Reincarnation
Re: can i achieve nirvana when i don't believe in Reincarnation
You can attain stream-entry without knowing for sure whether or not rebirth occurs in the way you happen to understand it. That is enough, in my opinion, to get to work.
- "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.
"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
Re: can i achieve nirvana when i don't believe in Reincarnation
And, by the way, there is no stream-entry with a view that there is no rebirth .)
- Bhikkhu Pesala
- Posts: 4646
- Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:17 pm
Re: can i achieve nirvana when i don't believe in Reincarnation
To attain nibbāna is synonymous with becoming a Stream-winner. Three fetters are abandoned by the Stream-winner — self-view (sakkāya ditthi), attachment to rites and rituals (sīlabbataparāmāsa), and skeptical doubt (vicikicchā).
The belief in reincarnation goes along with the belief in a self or soul. Theravāda Buddhists talk about rebirth rather than reincarnation, but the distinction is hard to see. If you rightly understand what the process of life really is, then you can dispel your doubts, but doubt is a very thorny problem for the meditator. Without faith or confidence (saddhā) in the goal and the method no one will practice wholeheartedly, and without strenuous effort no insight will arise, let alone the higher stages of the path or attainment of the goal.
The "Great Rebirth Debate" thread is clear evidence of how difficult it is for westerners to abandon speculative views and the doubts that arise from them.
As Ajahn Brahm says, “If you cannot believe in rebirth this time, maybe you will next time!”
Whatever you believe, it is not beliefs that get results but practice. At least you need to believe that the cessation of suffering is a goal worth striving for.
The belief in reincarnation goes along with the belief in a self or soul. Theravāda Buddhists talk about rebirth rather than reincarnation, but the distinction is hard to see. If you rightly understand what the process of life really is, then you can dispel your doubts, but doubt is a very thorny problem for the meditator. Without faith or confidence (saddhā) in the goal and the method no one will practice wholeheartedly, and without strenuous effort no insight will arise, let alone the higher stages of the path or attainment of the goal.
The "Great Rebirth Debate" thread is clear evidence of how difficult it is for westerners to abandon speculative views and the doubts that arise from them.
As Ajahn Brahm says, “If you cannot believe in rebirth this time, maybe you will next time!”
Whatever you believe, it is not beliefs that get results but practice. At least you need to believe that the cessation of suffering is a goal worth striving for.
- Suffering is the cause and faith or confidence in the Buddha's teaching is the effect.
- Faith is the cause and effort to attain the goal is the effect
- Effort is the cause and mindfulness is the effect
- Constant, uninterrupted and continuous mindfulness is the cause and concentration is the effect
- Concentration is the cause and seeing things as they truly are is the effect
Last edited by Bhikkhu Pesala on Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Blog • Pāli Fonts • In This Very Life • Buddhist Chronicles • Software (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)
Re: can i achieve nirvana when i don't believe in Reincarnation
Well, the Brahmajala Sutta describes a number of examples of wrong view which include various misunderstandings of rebirth, and a stream-entrant is free of wrong view in that sense, so we should probably be careful about any implication that one or another statement about rebirth is the precisely correct one, all others being wrong.Zom wrote:And, by the way, there is no stream-entry with a view that there is no rebirth .)
We ought to focus on the fact of the efficacy of intention with respect to our practice, and not on pre-birth/post-death speculations.
- "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.
"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
- reflection
- Posts: 1116
- Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:27 pm
Re: can i achieve nirvana when i don't believe in Reincarnation
Hi,
I just posted but my post disappeared. Here it is again:
If I were to say "no", what would it change? Would you suddenly start to belief in rebirth? I think not, because you can't just decide to change your belief. You need some arguments or proofs for it. Also, if I said "yes", you still wouldn't know if that's true. You've only got my word, but that doesn't proof or change anything either.
So either way, the situation will not really change. The only thing you can do is practice the path as you would have done if this question had no answer. Contemplate rebirth and its place in the teachings, you may find it has a place and meaning, or you might find the opposite. But whatever it may be, don't let the outcome be a hurdle for further practice.
With loving kindness,
Reflection
I just posted but my post disappeared. Here it is again:
If I were to say "no", what would it change? Would you suddenly start to belief in rebirth? I think not, because you can't just decide to change your belief. You need some arguments or proofs for it. Also, if I said "yes", you still wouldn't know if that's true. You've only got my word, but that doesn't proof or change anything either.
So either way, the situation will not really change. The only thing you can do is practice the path as you would have done if this question had no answer. Contemplate rebirth and its place in the teachings, you may find it has a place and meaning, or you might find the opposite. But whatever it may be, don't let the outcome be a hurdle for further practice.
With loving kindness,
Reflection
Re: can i achieve nirvana when i don't believe in Reincarnation
Why is that? Attaining nibbana is the destruction of greed-hatred-delusion. Stream-enterer doesn't destroy any of these.To attain nibbāna is synonymous with becoming a Stream-winner.
I mean that stream-enterer can't have a view that there is no rebith. Or - no next life, if this is more clear.Well, the Brahmajala Sutta describes a number of examples of wrong view which include various misunderstandings of rebirth, and a stream-entrant is free of wrong view in that sense, so we should probably be careful about any implication that one or another statement about rebirth is the precisely correct one, all others being wrong.
Re: can i achieve nirvana when i don't believe in Reincarnation
Hi korjusk,
Of course you can achieve nibbana.
All that is required is that you give up the belief in a self.
This, of course, will mean that there is no self to be reincarnated.
Regards, Vincent.
Of course you can achieve nibbana.
All that is required is that you give up the belief in a self.
This, of course, will mean that there is no self to be reincarnated.
Regards, Vincent.
Re: can i achieve nirvana when i don't believe in Reincarnation
If you do not think you're consciousness will continue to reproduce after this life,
what would Nibbana even mean to you?
Without rebirth, for you everything would just end when you die and Nibbana wouldn't matter.
So, I'm curious as to why you would wonder this...
Son.
what would Nibbana even mean to you?
Without rebirth, for you everything would just end when you die and Nibbana wouldn't matter.
So, I'm curious as to why you would wonder this...
Son.
A seed sleeps in soil.
It's cold and alone, hopeless.
Until it blooms above.
It's cold and alone, hopeless.
Until it blooms above.
Re: can i achieve nirvana when i don't believe in Reincarnation
daverupa wrote:
We ought to focus on the fact of the efficacy of intention with respect to our practice, and not on pre-birth/post-death speculations.
Yes, this makes sense to me, Dave . _/\_
.
Re: can i achieve nirvana when i don't believe in Reincarnation
I agree with you, Vincent. I would feel inclined to add that it may not be easy to root out the concept of self from the mind. For example a materialist may still assume they are the doer of actions whilst their physical form persists but when questioned they may deny any permanent self beyond this life. This is still a concept of self in the mind albeit an-atta (no soul).vinasp wrote:Hi korjusk,
Of course you can achieve nibbana.
All that is required is that you give up the belief in a self.
This, of course, will mean that there is no self to be reincarnated.
Regards, Vincent.
“Both formerly & now, it is only stress that I describe, and the cessation of stress.” — SN 22:86
Re: can i achieve nirvana when i don't believe in Reincarnation
No, bcos you cant if you have wrong view.
anyway, if you are enlightened, you will know for a fact that
reincarnation happens.
so, its a win-win situation.
anyway, if you are enlightened, you will know for a fact that
reincarnation happens.
so, its a win-win situation.
Re: can i achieve nirvana when i don't believe in Reincarnation
It is possible to get rid of dukkha when not believing anything. That should suffice.korjusk wrote:Is it possible?
Thanks.
Kind regards
Re: can i achieve nirvana when i don't believe in Reincarnation
As already indicated, "reincarnation" is not an accurate term in a Buddhist context. But to answer your question, if you don't believe in the post-mortem continuum of saṃsāric becomming, then there is no reason whatsoever to want to realize nibbāna.korjusk wrote:Is it possible?
Re: can i achieve nirvana when i don't believe in Reincarnation
Rebirth and reincarnation are not terms that are interchangeable. But this is still funny.
Rain soddens what is covered up,
It does not sodden what is open.
Therefore uncover what is covered
That the rain will not sodden it. Ud 5.5
It does not sodden what is open.
Therefore uncover what is covered
That the rain will not sodden it. Ud 5.5