Buddhist view on Christianity

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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martinfrank
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Re: Buddhist view on Christianity

Post by martinfrank »

Hieros Gamos wrote:
martinfrank wrote:unaccessible to
I'm not qualified to say. I also have strong synchretist habits of mind but I question their usefulness. It may be the case that humanity is destined for a great synchrestistic merging in the future, who can say. Even if so I've found it's useful to commit to a practice which is rich in specifics.
Dear Hieros Gamos (nice name for somebody who is NOT synchretist... did it appear to you that the Noble Eightfold Path is not about having sex in an open field with lots of people watching?)

Never mind!

Did I recommend to be at the same time a Buddhist, a Christian, a Jew, a Muslim, a Greek Pagan etc.? If we have Faith in Lord Buddha, we don't need to try a little Hesychasm and a little La Regla Lukumi on the side while we do anapanasati.

But if I meet a Hasidic Jew in the airport whose eyes are clear, calm and deep like a mountain lake and who radiates peace and love, shouldn't I respect him for what he has achieved? Can't I let myself be inspired by al-Hallaj? If you meditate seriously you automatically start to respect others who are doing the same - even if they belong to a different tradition.

For me Buddhism is the Rolls Royce Corniche of religions. I am convinced that we have the best set of instructions. Why do you think that it is wrong to feel inspired by Saint Francis?
About the time when St.Francis lived in the city of Gubbio, in the countryside a huge terrible ferocious wolf appeared, which didn't only eat animals but also human beings. All the inhabitants were terrorized because the wolf often went near to the city. For this reason they were always armed when they went out of the city, as if they were going to a battle. But, nevertheless, who met the wolf wasn't capable of defending themselves if they were alone. Therefore nobody had the courage to leave the City.

Regarding this situation, St.Francis felt pity for the inhabitants of Gubbio and wanted to meet this wolf even if everyone advised him not to do so. He made the sign of the cross and left the city with his companions, hoping to have God's help. Fear stopped the others from going ahead, while St. Francis continued his walk towards the place where the wolf usually was and he met the saint with his mouth wide open. But St. Francis made the sign of the cross to the wolf and called him: "come here, brother wolf; I command you in the name of Christ not to harm neither me nor the others". The terrible wolf immediately closed its mouth, stopped running and sat down as tame as a lamb at the feet of St.Francis.

Then St. Francis said to him: "Brother wolf, in these places you have caused great damages and you have killed creatures of God without his permission; but you didn't only have the courage to kill animals, but you also killed human beings, made to the image of God, and for this reason you are worthy to be condemned. All the people of this land talk about you and are your enemies, but I want to have peace between you and the people. In this way you won't harm them any more and they will forgive any bad action of yours in the past."

As soon as St.Francis said these words, the wolf, with movements of its body, tail and eyes and by lowering his head, demonstrated to have accepted that which had been said to him by the Saint.

St.Francis then continued: "Brother wolf, if you like making and maintaining this peace, I promise that I will have you assisted for all your life long by the people of this land so that you will never go hungry again, because I know that it is because of hunger that you have caused so much damage. But, brother wolf, I want you to promise me that you will never harm any person or animal again; do you promise me to do so?" The wolf lowered his head and obviously promised to do so. And St. Francis continued: "brother wolf, I want you to give me a sign, an oath, so that I can trust you to keep your promise". The wolf then lifted his paw and kindly put it in the hand of St. Francis.

The Saint said: "Brother wolf, I order you in the name of Jesus Christ to come with me now to the city to confirm this peace". And the wolf obediently followed the Saint like a meek lamb and marveled everyone who saw this scene. The news spread quickly and the whole city, men, women, children and old people went to the square to see the wolf with St. Francis. As soon as the people were gathered, St.Francis started preaching, and explained that the flames of hell were worse than the anger of the wolf and continued: "Listen, my brothers, brother wolf who is in front of you has promised me to make peace with you and not to harm you in any way if you will give him food every day for his living. And I assure you all from his part that he will keep his word to maintain the peace".

All the people, in chorus, promised to feed him. In the presence of all the people, St.Francis said to the wolf: And you, brother wolf, do you promise to keep the peace pact and not to harm neither animals nor people, in other words, nobody?" Kneeing down, lowering its head, moving its tail and ears, the wolf demonstrated to want to keep his word.

St.Francis continued: "Brother wolf, as you showed me outside the doors of the city, now in front of all the people I want you to repeat you gesture to show that you will keep your word." Then the wolf lifted his paw and put it on St.Francis's hand.

Therefore there was great joy among the people, but also admiration and devotion towards the Saint and everyone praised and blessed God who sent them St.Francis who saved them from the mouth of the cruel beast.

From that day the wolf lived for two years in Gubbio: it entered and went out freely from the people's houses like a tame animal without harming anyone. It was regularly fed by the people but two years later it died of old age.

Its death brought great sadness among the inhabitants because they were used to seeing it walking around tamely and they remembered the virtues and the sanctity of St.Francis.
Can you talk with animals?
The Noble Eightfold Path: Proposed to all, imposed on none.
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Hieros Gamos
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Re: Buddhist view on Christianity

Post by Hieros Gamos »

martinfrank wrote:Can you talk with animals?
I wish waking to my real condition were that easy.

=;-}

_/\_
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Mkoll
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Re: Buddhist view on Christianity

Post by Mkoll »

Lazy_eye wrote:After all, for many layfolk the practice is centered around the brahma viharas and cultivating ethical behavior, and as has been pointed out, these are not exclusive to Buddhism.
Where is cultivation of all four Brahmaviharas in another religion other than Buddhism?

What other religion has right speech, in all four of its aspects?
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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Mkoll
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Re: Buddhist view on Christianity

Post by Mkoll »

martinfrank wrote:I have strong Faith in Lord Buddha and have Confidence that he showed us the best way but does that necessarily mean that the whole road from here to Nibbana is reserved for Buddhists?
So do you think someone who doesn't follow the Buddha's teachings (and is not a Buddha or Pacekkabuddha) can attain Nibbana?
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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Mkoll
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Re: Buddhist view on Christianity

Post by Mkoll »

The quote made famous by Richard Feynman has a light to shed:
"Keep an open mind – but not so open that your brain falls out"
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
culaavuso
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Re: Buddhist view on Christianity

Post by culaavuso »

Lazy_eye wrote:One question that comes up for me is "what is Buddhist about being a lay Buddhist?"
AN 8.25: Mahānāma Sutta wrote: "Venerable sir, in what way is one a lay follower?"

"Mahanama, inasmuch as one has gone to the Buddha for refuge, has gone to the Dhamma for refuge, has gone to the Sangha for refuge; in that way, Mahanama, one is a lay follower."
thepea
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Re: Buddhist view on Christianity

Post by thepea »

Mkoll wrote: Where is cultivation of all four Brahmaviharas in another religion other than Buddhism?
Some may call this God.
Mkoll wrote: What other religion has right speech, in all four of its aspects?
Right Speech "Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry. . .If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless" (James 1:19, 27).
thepea
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Re: Buddhist view on Christianity

Post by thepea »

Mkoll wrote: So do you think someone who doesn't follow the Buddha's teachings (and is not a Buddha or Pacekkabuddha) can attain Nibbana?
They might become one with God.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Buddhist view on Christianity

Post by tiltbillings »

thepea wrote:
Mkoll wrote: So do you think someone who doesn't follow the Buddha's teachings (and is not a Buddha or Pacekkabuddha) can attain Nibbana?
They might become one with God.
A goal that the Buddha characterized as hīna, MN 97; ii 196.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
thepea
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Re: Buddhist view on Christianity

Post by thepea »

tiltbillings wrote: A goal that the Buddha characterized as hīna, MN 97; ii 196.
Why?
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tiltbillings
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Re: Buddhist view on Christianity

Post by tiltbillings »

thepea wrote:
tiltbillings wrote: A goal that the Buddha characterized as hīna, MN 97; ii 196.
Why?
Read the text.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
SarathW
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Re: Buddhist view on Christianity

Post by SarathW »

thepea wrote:
tiltbillings wrote: A goal that the Buddha characterized as hīna, MN 97; ii 196.
Why?
According to Buddhism there is a time limit for the God.
After completing that time you will have another rebirth.
So it is no point of aiming for that because you may end up with where you start!
:shrug:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
thepea
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Re: Buddhist view on Christianity

Post by thepea »

SarathW wrote: According to Buddhism there is a time limit for the God.
After completing that time you will have another rebirth.
So it is no point of aiming for that because you may end up with where you start!
:shrug:
Time is thought(past or future) God is presence, you are talking of Brahman are you not?
This carries a different meaning for me.
thepea
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Re: Buddhist view on Christianity

Post by thepea »

tiltbillings wrote:
thepea wrote:
tiltbillings wrote: A goal that the Buddha characterized as hīna, MN 97; ii 196.
Why?
Read the text.
I clicked on the highlighted text, but it is not clear to me your point.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Buddhist view on Christianity

Post by tiltbillings »

thepea wrote: I clicked on the highlighted text, but it is not clear to me your point.
The highlighted text was a definition of hīna. The text you should read is MN 97.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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