Mishandling the practice

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Digity
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Re: Mishandling the practice

Post by Digity »

Bundokji wrote: I second what SarathW said, the practice is difficult and can be easily misunderstood, you are not alone :smile: Maybe what makes us struggle is our desire to achieve something!
Yes, trying to achieve something is a huge problem in our practice. It's obviously rooted in desire and a mind gripped by desire is a restless mind. I've realized recently that this was messing up my practice and I've adopted the attitude of being more accepting and equanimous to whatever comes up. When you adopt that attitude things tend to unfold naturally. That natural unfolding can't occur if the mind is caught in desire. When it's caught in desire it freezes and contracts the mind and nothing good comes out of that.

It's a bit of a catch-22, because on one hand the desire to achieve something is what gets us on the path in the first place, but at some point that very desire gets in the way and it needs to be let go of. It's up to the practitioner to realize when that point has come.
Digity
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Re: Mishandling the practice

Post by Digity »

Mkoll wrote:
Digity wrote:I think what he's saying is that he no longer feel superior to others. I don't think you need to be an arahant to experience that.
So you think that one can remove "I am superior" without removing "I am equal" and "I am inferior"? I don't think so, because they all stem from the same root that is only uprooted at arahantship. If you cut off the blossom from a plant, it will grow another one because its roots are still there.
He was referring to conceit as excessive pride in oneself. I think he was just saying it was greatly diminished in him. Which I think would happen to a lot of people on this path. But of course, if he think he's eliminated at the same level of an arahant then he's deluding himself.
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Mkoll
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Re: Mishandling the practice

Post by Mkoll »

Digity wrote:
Mkoll wrote:
Digity wrote:I think what he's saying is that he no longer feel superior to others. I don't think you need to be an arahant to experience that.
So you think that one can remove "I am superior" without removing "I am equal" and "I am inferior"? I don't think so, because they all stem from the same root that is only uprooted at arahantship. If you cut off the blossom from a plant, it will grow another one because its roots are still there.
He was referring to conceit as excessive pride in oneself. I think he was just saying it was greatly diminished in him. Which I think would happen to a lot of people on this path. But of course, if he think he's eliminated at the same level of an arahant then he's deluding himself.
He said "entirely destroyed all conceit and pride" not "greatly diminished some of it."

And for those who haven't picked up on this subtlety yet, the very act of proclaiming to others that one has "entirely destroyed all conceit and pride" is itself a display of conceit and pride and thus contradictory. Only an arahant who has actually eradicated conceit at its most subtle and foundational level can say this and be in full accord with things as they are.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Digity
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Re: Mishandling the practice

Post by Digity »

Mkoll wrote:He said "entirely destroyed all conceit and pride" not "greatly diminished some of it." And for those who haven't picked up on this subtlety yet, the very act of proclaiming to others that one has "entirely destroyed all conceit and pride" is itself a display of conceit and pride and thus contradictory. Only an arahant who has actually eradicated conceit at its most subtle and foundational level can say this and be in full accord with things as they are.
Yes, I picked up that subtletly, but didn't bother to comment. Frankly, I think it's easy to delude oneself on this path, but through mindfulness I think this corrects itself in most people. Some people stay in a deluded state and don't really get anywhere along the path, but I think people like that were never really practicing correctly in the first place and are misusing the path for other reasons.

People who actually develop in the path shouldn't feel the need to advertise it. Their actions should speak for themselves. A big reason I left the meditation group I was part of was that the teacher seemed to boast about himself. It just made me realize how little spiritual progress was really there. Ajahn Chah didn't go around telling people he was enlightened although most believe he was. He just lead by example.

In short, I think silver surfer may need to reassess things a little.
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Mkoll
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Re: Mishandling the practice

Post by Mkoll »

Digity wrote:
Mkoll wrote:He said "entirely destroyed all conceit and pride" not "greatly diminished some of it." And for those who haven't picked up on this subtlety yet, the very act of proclaiming to others that one has "entirely destroyed all conceit and pride" is itself a display of conceit and pride and thus contradictory. Only an arahant who has actually eradicated conceit at its most subtle and foundational level can say this and be in full accord with things as they are.
Yes, I picked up that subtletly, but didn't bother to comment. Frankly, I think it's easy to delude oneself on this path, but through mindfulness I think this corrects itself in most people. Some people stay in a deluded state and don't really get anywhere along the path, but I think people like that were never really practicing correctly in the first place and are misusing the path for other reasons.

People who actually develop in the path shouldn't feel the need to advertise it. Their actions should speak for themselves. A big reason I left the meditation group I was part of was that the teacher seemed to boast about himself. It just made me realize how little spiritual progress was really there. Ajahn Chah didn't go around telling people he was enlightened although most believe he was. He just lead by example.

In short, I think silver surfer may need to reassess things a little.
:clap:

Agreed.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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SDC
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Re: Mishandling the practice

Post by SDC »

Considering the fundamental implications of the Dhamma I think most, if not all, practitioners mishandle both its methods and purpose initially since they are assessing the concepts and their implications with certain assumptions about the nature of their experience of which their experience cannot separated from (namely self). There is literally no other way to approach it at first and it is important to come to terms with this initial ignorance in order to figure out how to work with it. Otherwise not only will the dhamma be mishandled a ton of time will be wasted.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
Bundokji
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Re: Mishandling the practice

Post by Bundokji »

Digity wrote:
Bundokji wrote: I second what SarathW said, the practice is difficult and can be easily misunderstood, you are not alone :smile: Maybe what makes us struggle is our desire to achieve something!
Yes, trying to achieve something is a huge problem in our practice. It's obviously rooted in desire and a mind gripped by desire is a restless mind. I've realized recently that this was messing up my practice and I've adopted the attitude of being more accepting and equanimous to whatever comes up. When you adopt that attitude things tend to unfold naturally. That natural unfolding can't occur if the mind is caught in desire. When it's caught in desire it freezes and contracts the mind and nothing good comes out of that.

It's a bit of a catch-22, because on one hand the desire to achieve something is what gets us on the path in the first place, but at some point that very desire gets in the way and it needs to be let go of. It's up to the practitioner to realize when that point has come.
:goodpost:
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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Mr Man
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Re: Mishandling the practice

Post by Mr Man »

silver surfer wrote:
What does "conceit" mean in Buddhist literature?

If it means; "Excessive pride in oneself, an excessively favorable opinion of one's own ability, importance, wit, etc." - > I don't have conceit in me. May I have a sutta about it though?

:namaste:

"Friends, even though a noble disciple has abandoned the five lower fetters, he still has with regard to the five clinging-aggregates a lingering residual 'I am' conceit, an 'I am' desire, an 'I am' obsession.

Khemaka Sutta SN 22.89

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Herbie
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Re: Mishandling the practice

Post by Herbie »

Digity wrote:I think sometimes Buddhism promotes negative qualities in people.
I think that if these qualities weren't there in the first place in a sort of lurking state nothing could promote them.
Inspiration is based on the exchange of different linguistic expressions. But inspiration is best knowing how language relates to truth. :smile:
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