Why do teachers sometimes conflict one another

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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pilgrim
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Re: Why do teachers sometimes conflict one another

Post by pilgrim »

The area of greatest contradiction appears to be the role or importance of jhanas. Recently an attempt at reconciling these views has developed with the understanding that the jhanas described in the Visudhi Magga is not exactly the same as those that described in the suttas.
http://www.leighb.com/jhanantp.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Other than this point, most perceived contradictions appear more to be differences on emphasis..
pegembara
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Re: Why do teachers sometimes conflict one another

Post by pegembara »

Upasaka Sumana wrote:Why is it that teachers -- all of them credible -- sometimes disagree with each other on certain doctrinal or practical issues, and more importantly, how do we judge which teacher is right?

For example, some say that you need jhāna to get enlightened, or even to practice vipassanā, others say you don't need jhāna for either. Some strongly advise against meditating for 3 hours, others say it's up to you. Some say right view is an advanced stage of practice, others say there is also a preliminary type of right view.

I could give other examples, but it seems that many teachers have different views on a range of different doctrinal and practical points.

And as far as ordinary Buddhists are concerned, there are even more disagreements. So I am sure I will get different responses to my question. But how do I know which one(s) is/are right?

"Gotami, the dhammas of which you may know, 'These dhammas lead — to passion, not to dispassion; to being fettered, not to being unfettered; to accumulating, not to shedding; to self-aggrandizement, not to modesty; to discontent, not to contentment; to entanglement, not to seclusion; to laziness, not to aroused persistence; to being burdensome, not to being unburdensome': You may categorically hold, 'This is not the Dhamma, this is not the Vinaya, this is not the Teacher's instruction.'

"As for the dhammas of which you may know, 'These dhammas lead — to dispassion, not to passion; to being unfettered, not to being fettered; to shedding, not to accumulating; to modesty, not to self-aggrandizement; to contentment, not to discontent; to seclusion, not to entanglement; to aroused persistence, not to laziness; to being unburdensome, not to being burdensome': You may categorically hold, 'This is the Dhamma, this is the Vinaya, this is the Teacher's instruction.'"

— AN 8.53

"Upali, the dhammas of which you may know, 'These dhammas do not lead to utter disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to calm, to direct knowledge, to self-awakening, nor to Unbinding': You may categorically hold, 'This is not the Dhamma, this is not the Vinaya, this is not the Teacher's instruction.'

"As for the dhammas of which you may know, 'These dhammas lead to utter disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to calm, to direct knowledge, to self-awakening, to Unbinding': You may categorically hold, 'This is the Dhamma, this is the Vinaya, this is the Teacher's instruction.'"

— AN 7.79
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
Pinetree
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Re: Why do teachers sometimes conflict one another

Post by Pinetree »

But how do I know which one(s) is/are right?
What is relevant to you is your personal understanding of the teachings. Talking about who is right and who is wrong would be pure speculation.

You should try and see which understanding of the teachings is right for you.

And what is right for you is what moves you away from dukkha.

By that, I don't mean something which gives you a feeling of comfort, but what gives you an understanding of dukkha and the cessation of dukkha.
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The Thinker
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Re: Why do teachers sometimes conflict one another

Post by The Thinker »

We come from different cultures and backgrounds, we may read different material, we may read the same material and interpret it differently, our teachers are just the same, I may not believe in rebirth and many would question what is he doing on this Theravada forum, but this is where I feel comfortable, I need not be secular because of my view, I reject the word secular, for it ignores the teachers that have impacted me, and most of those are monks and nuns of this tradition whom hold my greatest respect, for they live the path.

“Attachment to desire is the cause of the personal suffering. In the instance of spiritual progress, by attaching to desire - what stage am I in, and I want to get to the next stage - you can see this is based on the illusion of me as a person trying to become something. To, me, this is desire of ignorance. By recognizing the ignorance, the delusion, you can let go.”


“The personality never gets enlightened.”
- See more at: http://dharmawisdom.org/node/286#sthash.Ahpocb7W.dpuf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


If there is no I , where can I go? :namaste:
"Watch your heart, observe. Be the observer, be the knower, not the condition" Ajahn Sumedho volume5 - The Wheel Of Truth
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Aloka
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Re: Why do teachers sometimes conflict one another

Post by Aloka »

Pinetree wrote:
But how do I know which one(s) is/are right?
What is relevant to you is your personal understanding of the teachings. Talking about who is right and who is wrong would be pure speculation.

You should try and see which understanding of the teachings is right for you.

And what is right for you is what moves you away from dukkha.

By that, I don't mean something which gives you a feeling of comfort, but what gives you an understanding of dukkha and the cessation of dukkha.

Yes,I agree with this. I think its important to continue investigation in a direct way which is relevant to ones own situation, rather than getting caught up in the endless views and opinions of others.


:anjali:
Herbie
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Re: Why do teachers sometimes conflict one another

Post by Herbie »

Upasaka Sumana wrote:Why is it that teachers -- all of them credible -- sometimes disagree with each other on certain doctrinal or practical issues,
To demonstrate that things are relative.
Upasaka Sumana wrote: and more importantly, how do we judge which teacher is right?
By means of your own experience.
Inspiration is based on the exchange of different linguistic expressions. But inspiration is best knowing how language relates to truth. :smile:
vimuttirasa
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Re: Why do teachers sometimes conflict one another

Post by vimuttirasa »

Re: how to know who is right.

Observe the meditation teacher over a long period of time and ask yourself, are they a consistently good example of a happy, healthy, responsible human being? Do their fellow monks/nuns/their family and associates respect them and do I really want to become like them?

Because if you meditate like them over a long period of time, according to the law of kamma, you will become like them.

:anjali:
Zenny
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Re: Why do teachers sometimes conflict one another

Post by Zenny »

Because they are too entrenched in traditional sectarian dogma and intellectual commentaries.
Your own personal experience is the key.
Non buddhist Zen Practitioner.
Focus!
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