"Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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ihrjordan
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by ihrjordan »

tiltbillings wrote:And so you know from first hand experience that if you have sex, you will be an empty husk of a man unable to reasonably function because you have "reduced vitality." Also, to whom is this sutta directed?
I'd rather not bring my life into this but yes I think it's pretty well established that loss of semen has detrimental effects such as emotional instability, insecurity, anxiety etc. Otherwise why would you have entire forums, websites and reddits dedicated to abstaining from Porn masturbation and orgasm. they've seen the detrimental effects that indulgence in sexual activity has... Even from a western perspective sperm contains high concentrations of zinc as well as many other trace minerals and even components of which are still unstudied. And a deficiency in zinc is the 5th leading risk factor for disease worldwide and can cause everything from hair loss and weak immunity to poor Neurological Function e.g. dullness of mind here are two studies indicating just that: http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/minerals/zinc#deficiency" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/minerals/zinc#deficiency" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Are you aware that semen production is the male bodies priority and that if there isn't adequate semen stored that the male body will actually strip the 6 other tissues of nourishment in order to create more. The same can be seen in the female of who's body will prioritize the production of breast milk even at the expense of the maintenance of the organism!
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by DNS »

ihrjordan wrote:Even from a western perspective sperm contains high concentrations of zinc as well as many other trace minerals and even components of which are still unstudied. And a deficiency in zinc is the 5th leading risk factor for disease worldwide
Then eat foods high in zinc and take a zinc supplement. Problem solved.
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by DNS »

Here is a study that shows monks and nuns do tend to have higher longevity:
http://paa2012.princeton.edu/papers/122836" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tldr - go to page 5 for a graph summary

Although the higher longevity could be due to leading a contemplative - spiritual life and living in a religious community (social benefits).
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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

I participate in this forum using Google Translator. http://translate.google.com.br

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ihrjordan
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by ihrjordan »

David N. Snyder wrote:
ihrjordan wrote:Even from a western perspective sperm contains high concentrations of zinc as well as many other trace minerals and even components of which are still unstudied. And a deficiency in zinc is the 5th leading risk factor for disease worldwide
Then eat foods high in zinc and take a zinc supplement. Problem solved.
If only the world and our digestion truly worked like this. It's easy to assume that we absorb all of the nutrients available in each bite of food we ingest but this couldn't be farther from the truth. If it were the case that our bodies used all of the nutrients in the foods we eat then there would be very little disease in this world.. The RDA of zinc for a male on a 2,000 calorie diet is around 11 mg, know that zinc isn't only used in the production of semen but also in numerous other bodily processes and things aren't as simple as ingest zinc, make sperm, nourish other tissues done! In ayurveda it is recognized that it takes around 30 days for food in it's gross form to be converted into Oja's otherwise known as as "vigor" or "vitality" (sound familiar?) and used to maintain the organism.

And it isn't only zinc as I said there are numerous compounds present in semen of which modern medicine is completely in the dark! Such as hormones enzymes etc.

And I'd be careful with any kind of supplement that isn't simply food as they can have pretty bad side effects since they are removed from nature's intelligence...Our bodies weren't meant to intake large amounts of isolated nutrients (sorry bodybuilders and your protein supplements). Nutrients always work in tandem with the other components included in the food stuff.
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by Ben »

ihrjordan wrote:and it isn't only zinc as I said there are numerous compounds present in semen of which modern medicine is completely in the dark! Such as hormones enzymes etc.
Really? Please do tell. What hormones, enzymes and other compounds is modern medicine completely in the dark about?
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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ihrjordan
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by ihrjordan »

Ben wrote:
ihrjordan wrote:and it isn't only zinc as I said there are numerous compounds present in semen of which modern medicine is completely in the dark! Such as hormones enzymes etc.
Really? Please do tell. What hormones, enzymes and other compounds is modern medicine completely in the dark about?
How should I know? I don't really subscribe to the western medicine paradigm of reductionism, "nutrients" and active and "in-active ingredients". But in order to convey my meaning I figured I'd word in a way in which those who do stand by such a system would follow me. It stands to reason that there are ingredients of semen understood in the western sense which have yet to be recognized, it is the very seed which creates life after all. I'm sure if Big Pharma could find a way to isolate the ingredients in semen and patent them for sale to would be doctor Frankensteins they would have done so by now. But to satisfy your curiosity here is a known list of the components in semen:

Ammonia = 2
Ascorbic Acid/Vitamin C = 12.8
Calcium = 25
Carbon Dioxide = 54 ml/100 ml
Chloride = 155
Cholesterol = 80
Citric acid = 376
Copper = 006 to .024
Nitrogen, nonprotein (total) = 913
Phosphorus, acid-soluble = 57
Inorganic = 11
Lipids = 6
Total (lipid) = 112
Phosphorylcholine = 250-380
Glutathione = 30
Glycerylphorylcholine = 54-90
Inositol = 50.57
Lactic Acid = 35
Magnesium = 14
Potassium = 89
Pyruvic Acid = 29
Sodium = 281
Sorbitol = 10
Vitamin B 12 = 300-600 ppg
Sulfur = 3% (of ash)
Urea = 72
Uric acid = 6
Zinc = 14
Sialic acid
Acid phosphatase
Ash=9.9%
Creatine
DNA
Ergothioneine
Fibrinolysin
Flavins
Fructose
Galactose
Mucus
Prostaglandins
Prostate specific antigen,
Proteolytic enzymes,
Calcium (mg) 27.6 0.938
Chloride (mg) 142 4.83
Citrate (mg) 528 18.0
Fructose (mg) 27.6 9.25
Glucose (mg) 102 3.47
Lactic acid (g) 62 2.11
Magnesium (mg) 11 0.374
Potassium (mg) 109 3.71
Protein (g) 5.04 0.171
Sodium (mg) 300 10.2
Urea (g) 45 1.53
Zinc (mg) 16.5 0.561
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by Ben »

ihrjordan wrote:
Ben wrote:
ihrjordan wrote:and it isn't only zinc as I said there are numerous compounds present in semen of which modern medicine is completely in the dark! Such as hormones enzymes etc.
Really? Please do tell. What hormones, enzymes and other compounds is modern medicine completely in the dark about?
How should I know?
You made the claim

ihrjordan wrote:I don't really subscribe to the western medicine paradigm of reductionism, "nutrients" and active and "in-active ingredients". But in order to convey my meaning I figured I'd word in a way in which those who do stand by such a system would follow me. It stands to reason that there are ingredients of semen understood in the western sense which have yet to be recognized, it is the very seed which creates life after all. I'm sure if Big Pharma could find a way to isolate the ingredients in semen and patent them for sale to would be doctor Frankensteins they would have done so by now.
I'm sorry but this is irrational nonsense.


ihrjordan wrote:But to satisfy your curiosity here is a known list of the components in semen:

Ammonia = 2
Ascorbic Acid/Vitamin C = 12.8
Calcium = 25
Carbon Dioxide = 54 ml/100 ml
Chloride = 155
Cholesterol = 80
Citric acid = 376
Copper = 006 to .024
Nitrogen, nonprotein (total) = 913
Phosphorus, acid-soluble = 57
Inorganic = 11
Lipids = 6
Total (lipid) = 112
Phosphorylcholine = 250-380
Glutathione = 30
Glycerylphorylcholine = 54-90
Inositol = 50.57
Lactic Acid = 35
Magnesium = 14
Potassium = 89
Pyruvic Acid = 29
Sodium = 281
Sorbitol = 10
Vitamin B 12 = 300-600 ppg
Sulfur = 3% (of ash)
Urea = 72
Uric acid = 6
Zinc = 14
Sialic acid
Acid phosphatase
Ash=9.9%
Creatine
DNA
Ergothioneine
Fibrinolysin
Flavins
Fructose
Galactose
Mucus
Prostaglandins
Prostate specific antigen,
Proteolytic enzymes,
Calcium (mg) 27.6 0.938
Chloride (mg) 142 4.83
Citrate (mg) 528 18.0
Fructose (mg) 27.6 9.25
Glucose (mg) 102 3.47
Lactic acid (g) 62 2.11
Magnesium (mg) 11 0.374
Potassium (mg) 109 3.71
Protein (g) 5.04 0.171
Sodium (mg) 300 10.2
Urea (g) 45 1.53
Zinc (mg) 16.5 0.561
May I suggest you spend some time in an academic library doing some research.
There is nothing in the above list to which modern medicine is "in the dark".
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

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ihrjordan
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by ihrjordan »

Ben wrote:You made the claim
Well if they knew every single component of semen surely we'd have clones and test tube babies running rampant which is not the case.
Ben wrote:I'm sorry but this is irrational nonsense.
I'm sorry you feel that way.
Ben wrote:May I suggest you spend some time in an academic library doing some research.
There is nothing in the above list to which modern medicine is "in the dark".
Passive aggressive remark aside. I understand this. I gave you a list of the known components of semen...Now...Do you have any contentions on my actual hypothesis rather than picking on un-essentials?
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by Ben »

ihrjordan wrote:
Ben wrote:You made the claim
Well if they knew every single component of semen surely we'd have clones and test tube babies running rampant which is not the case.
Yet again, more irrational nonsense.
Ben wrote:I'm sorry but this is irrational nonsense.
ihrjordan wrote:I'm sorry you feel that way.
Its not a feeling. Its a statement of fact.

ihrjordan wrote:
Ben wrote:May I suggest you spend some time in an academic library doing some research.
There is nothing in the above list to which modern medicine is "in the dark".
Passive aggressive remark aside. I understand this. I gave you a list of the known components of semen...Now...Do you have any contentions on my actual hypothesis rather than picking on un-essentials?
I think I did that already, I'll repeat it for you.

May I suggest you spend some time in an academic library doing some research.
There is nothing in the above list to which modern medicine is "in the dark".
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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ihrjordan
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by ihrjordan »

Ben wrote:Yet again, more irrational nonsense.
Knowledge brings mastery. If Western medicine was aware of all the components in semen surely they would have made use of them or exploited them rather. What about this is irrational if I may ask?
Ben wrote:Its not a feeling. Its a statement of fact.
I sense a very aggressive tone behind your comments and I apologize if you work in a medical field and I offended you as I'm sure you had/have good intentions in your work.
Ben wrote:I think I did that already, I'll repeat it for you.

May I suggest you spend some time in an academic library doing some research.
There is nothing in the above list to which modern medicine is "in the dark".
No. You haven't as the thread is not about the exact constituents of semen but rather that retention of semen is what grants man vitality. A sentiment of which the Buddha, Ayurvedic medicine, Tantric and Taoist practices all seem to confirm.
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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

Science? Modern medicine?

What do they know about the Dhamma of the Buddha?

What they talk about Kamma, Rebirth, Jhanas, Annica, Dukkha, Anatta and Nibbana?


:spy:

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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by tiltbillings »

ihrjordan wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:And so you know from first hand experience that if you have sex, you will be an empty husk of a man unable to reasonably function because you have "reduced vitality." Also, to whom is this sutta directed?
I'd rather not bring my life into this but yes I think it's pretty well established that loss of semen has detrimental effects such as emotional instability, insecurity, anxiety etc. Otherwise why would you have entire forums, websites and reddits dedicated to abstaining from Porn masturbation and orgasm. they've seen the detrimental effects that indulgence in sexual activity has...
So, well, wow, everyone who has an active sex life is emotionally unstable, insecure, has anxiety, etc, and is consumed with all these detriments of sexual activity.
Even from a western perspective sperm contains high concentrations of zinc as well as many other trace minerals and even components of which are still unstudied. And a deficiency in zinc is the 5th leading risk factor for disease worldwide and can cause everything from hair loss and weak immunity to poor Neurological Function e.g. dullness of mind here are two studies indicating just that
Geez, hair loss, and here I was thinking that self-pleasuring as being the major cause of hairy palms and hairy knuckles.
Are you aware that semen production is the male bodies priority and that if there isn't adequate semen stored that the male body will actually strip the 6 other tissues of nourishment in order to create more.
And then when semen is not expelled, the body will expel it all by itself, and make more. The body has a good reason to expel the semen, and it has evolved a highly pleasurable connexion for expelling semen so that it will want to do it, and do it often.
The same can be seen in the female of who's body will prioritize the production of breast milk even at the expense of the maintenance of the organism!
That is not the same at all, not even close.

The bottom line is that this semen business is not something that Buddha taught. If you want to believe it, fine, but it is not Buddha-Dhamma.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by Ben »

ihrjordan wrote:
Ben wrote:Yet again, more irrational nonsense.
Knowledge brings mastery. If Western medicine was aware of all the components in semen surely they would have made use of them or exploited them rather. What about this is irrational if I may ask?
You've demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge of the subject and your jump to the conclusion above which demonstrates your ignorance is just one example.
ihrjordan wrote:
Ben wrote:Its not a feeling. Its a statement of fact.
I sense a very aggressive tone behind your comments and I apologize if you work in a medical field and I offended you as I'm sure you had/have good intentions in your work.
Your claim is not anything but an unsupported, irrational and illogical conjecture. You can project any form of negative emotive state on that you like, but its your ad hominem projection.

ihrjordan wrote: No. You haven't as the thread is not about the exact constituents of semen but rather that retention of semen is what grants man vitality. A sentiment of which the Buddha, Ayurvedic medicine, Tantric and Taoist practices all seem to confirm.
Well, it actually it gets to the heart of the matter. Your argument seems to be that you believe in some claims made in Ayurvedic texts, you make some claims that are simply wrong and instead of evidence or logic you appeal to the authority of Buddha (who never said anything about semen retention and vitality) ayurveda, tantra and taoism. Its circular argumentation.

As I said before, you would do well to spend some time doing research in an academic library.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
Pinetree
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by Pinetree »

That is all very nice, but not necessarily true; however, my response was to the claim that bone marrow is the source of semen, which is nonsense.
It may seem nonsense if you read it wrongly, meaning literally. In fact, marrow does not refer strictly to marrow, and semen doesn't refer strictly to semen. And of course, "source" doesn't mean source. Same as the "kidney" meridian for example, in TCM doesn't refer to the actual kidney organ. There may be connections to be made to modern medicine, including hormones, neurotransmitters. And yes, there are claims about "energies", but those don't necessarily refer to an undiscovered type of radiation, but to interactions between certain bodily aspects and certain mind aspects.
So how does that work out for nuns and female lay practitioners ?
For females, the loss of menstrual blood is also to be considered (talking about vitality).
Why would we evolve in such a way that our continuation as a species required a reduction in "life force" (whatever that is)?
Obviously procreation is sustained by draining "life force" from the parents. If it's not obvious for men, look at women and pregnancy, or even better, couples who have twins.
There is nothing in the above list to which modern medicine is "in the dark".
It may be useful to note that the confidence in modern medicine arises and ceases based on conditions, like many other things.
And then when semen is not expelled, the body will expel it all by itself, and make more. The body has a good reason to expel the semen, and it has evolved a highly pleasurable connexion for expelling semen so that it will want to do it, and do it often.
Those connections that you see there may not be like you see them. For example, the body doesn't necessarily expel semen, and the body isn't necessarily wise, and Buddhism is not usually about doing what the body wants to do.
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