"Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Aloka
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by Aloka »

Pinetree wrote:For females, the loss of menstrual blood is also to be considered (talking about vitality).
Menstrual blood loss is a natural function for women. Normal monthly blood loss doesn't drain vitality, otherwise female athletes wouldn't be able to compete in athletics, run marathons etc. Women also wouldn't be able to do physically active jobs if they were menstruating, which is of course absolute nonsense.

Its only if there is abnormal blood loss that problems can arise.

(There were also various old superstitions relating to menstruation, in the times when people didn't fully understand its function.)

.
Last edited by Aloka on Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
Pinetree
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by Pinetree »

Normal monthly blood loss doesn't drain vitality, otherwise female athletes wouldn't be able to compete in athletics, run marathons etc.
We could call it normal, but the range of normal is more wide than what you assume it to be, and there are means to reduce it to a minimum. When you cut your finger, bleeding is normal, but there are many ways to minimize it.
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Aloka
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by Aloka »

Pinetree wrote:
Normal monthly blood loss doesn't drain vitality, otherwise female athletes wouldn't be able to compete in athletics, run marathons etc.
We could call it normal, but the range of normal is more wide than what you assume it to be, and there are means to reduce it to a minimum. When you cut your finger, bleeding is normal, but there are many ways to minimize it.
I don't see what that has to do with it. The majority of women just carry on normally, without collapsing from weakness when they're menstruating.

Are you a woman yourself, Pinetree?
Pinetree
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by Pinetree »

without collapsing from weakness when they're menstruating.
I made no claims about collapsing, just stating that I have information that there is some depletion to the energy and to the body.

My source for what I am saying does not come from experience (as a woman), but I have attended some herbalism classes, taught by a woman. And this was a topic which was touched in the discussion.

But reading behind the lines from various posters in this thread, seems to be some level of assumption that normal equals what we're used to equals optimum.

And since you mentioned sports, google seems to think there is a wide spread issue regarding sports performance variations during the menstrual cycle. And just in case there will be a question: no, I am not an athlete.
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ihrjordan
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by ihrjordan »

Ben wrote:
ihrjordan wrote:
Ben wrote:Yet again, more irrational nonsense.
Knowledge brings mastery. If Western medicine was aware of all the components in semen surely they would have made use of them or exploited them rather. What about this is irrational if I may ask?
You've demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge of the subject and your jump to the conclusion above which demonstrates your ignorance is just one example.
ihrjordan wrote:
Ben wrote:Its not a feeling. Its a statement of fact.
I sense a very aggressive tone behind your comments and I apologize if you work in a medical field and I offended you as I'm sure you had/have good intentions in your work.
Your claim is not anything but an unsupported, irrational and illogical conjecture. You can project any form of negative emotive state on that you like, but its your ad hominem projection.

ihrjordan wrote: No. You haven't as the thread is not about the exact constituents of semen but rather that retention of semen is what grants man vitality. A sentiment of which the Buddha, Ayurvedic medicine, Tantric and Taoist practices all seem to confirm.
Well, it actually it gets to the heart of the matter. Your argument seems to be that you believe in some claims made in Ayurvedic texts, you make some claims that are simply wrong and instead of evidence or logic you appeal to the authority of Buddha (who never said anything about semen retention and vitality) ayurveda, tantra and taoism. Its circular argumentation.

As I said before, you would do well to spend some time doing research in an academic library.
Perhaps you'd care to read the thread in its entirety and take note of the references I have made to both suttas and academic studies displaying the detrimental effects of zinc deficiency which is a very real dysfunction...All of what you've said in your "counter arguments" amounts to calling me stupid without any real justification. The Buddha said uncelibacy is a cause for loss of vitality it's written as clear as day and you've yet to prove the contrary despite thinking you have. If you choose not to believe it or even take the time to properly understand my side then why respond in the first place? And also we have nothing further to talk about because last time I checked it was suitable to "appeal to the Buddha's authority". We are buddhists on a Buddhist website after all no?
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Aloka
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by Aloka »

Aloka wrote:
Pinetree wrote:
without collapsing from weakness when they're menstruating.
I made no claims about collapsing, just stating that I have information that there is some depletion to the energy and to the body.

My source for what I am saying does not come from experience (as a woman), but I have attended some herbalism classes, taught by a woman. And this was a topic which was touched in the discussion.

But reading behind the lines from various posters in this thread, seems to be some level of assumption that normal equals what we're used to equals optimum.

And since you mentioned sports, google seems to think there is a wide spread issue regarding sports performance variations during the menstrual cycle. And just in case there will be a question: no, I am not an athlete.
My source of information that menstruation doesn't generally cause depleted energy, except in superstitious "old wives tales", or in cases of women who have a specific menstrual disorder, or other medical problems, comes from being a woman myself and having worked with, observed, spoken to, and taught (in schools) many women and girls myself.... and I'm also a qualified complementary therapist. (though not a "herbalist")

Returning to the original discussion about semen, I fail to see how loss of menstrual blood can somehow be a parallel in women to the ejaculation of semen in men.

:shrug:
Last edited by Aloka on Wed Jun 29, 2016 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ihrjordan
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by ihrjordan »

Semen cannot be made without blood. Blood is one of the 7 tissues which sustain life. The falling of semen is just a very observable form of decay in an organism. That's not to say that it can't be beneficial at times; as is the case in one who is overweight, diabetic, one with edema etc. as I'm sure you've heard of blood letting before (which despite common knowledge isn't just some old superstitous medical treatment)...the Buddha also allowed his monks to blood let when the occasion called for it. But as common sense will tell us. Blood letting certainly is not beneficial in one without a disease of which excess is the primary idicator.
chownah
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by chownah »

Lucas Oliveira,
I looked at both of your links and both of them say that the caduceus is not a symbol for the medical profession and is only mistakenly used as a medical symbol.
chownah
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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.
Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quote ... 07502.html



:namaste:
I participate in this forum using Google Translator. http://translate.google.com.br

http://www.acessoaoinsight.net/
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Aloka
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by Aloka »

ihrjordan wrote:Semen cannot be made without blood. Blood is one of the 7 tissues which sustain life. The falling of semen is just a very observable form of decay in an organism. That's not to say that it can't be beneficial at times; as is the case in one who is overweight, diabetic, one with edema etc. as I'm sure you've heard of blood letting before (which despite common knowledge isn't just some old superstitous medical treatment)...the Buddha also allowed his monks to blood let when the occasion called for it. But as common sense will tell us. Blood letting certainly is not beneficial in one without a disease of which excess is the primary idicator.
Are these comments meant for me, ihrjordan ? Blood letting doesn't have any connection to the female menstrual cycle. Didn't you learn anything about the human reproduction system when you went to school ?

Oops, is that the time already? Yes, its definately the time to exit this topic .. ...
Pinetree
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by Pinetree »


Returning to the original discussion about semen, I fail to see how loss of menstrual blood can somehow be a parallel in women to the ejaculation of semen in men.
1. There wasn't a parallel in sense of equality, since is that man's and woman's reproductive systems have certainly differences between them. It was in the context of loss of vitality/life force/energy. And I was under the impression that this is the original discussion.

2. The reason I have chosen the loss of menstrual blood as an example, was hoping that it would be beyond obvious that there is energy required to create/form blood and loss of energy when losing it. Now somebody could argue that they don't care about the lost energy or that it's not much or that it's not needed, but I was hoping that we would first agree that the energy loss does exist.
chownah
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by chownah »

Lucas Oliveira wrote:An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.
Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quote ... 07502.html



:namaste:
I think this is in response to my previous post. I don't understand how to apply this with respect to my previous post.
chownah
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tiltbillings
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by tiltbillings »

Pinetree wrote: The reason I have chosen the loss of menstrual blood as an example, was hoping that it would be beyond obvious that there is energy required to create/form blood and loss of energy when losing it.
But does that actually mean in the real world?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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tiltbillings
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by tiltbillings »

Retention of semen? The Buddha did not teach this. While he insisted on celibacy for monastics, there is no evidence that this has a thing to do with the retention of semen; rather, given the power of sex, the last thing one needs in trying to maintain a stable monastic community is sexual politics in play and the disturbances that go with that in a monastic community. The Buddha, however, made no mention of semen retention.

Evolutionarily males are designed to produce semen and to want to expel it. Does expelling semen result in a loss vitality? What would that mean? Having sex only results in a relatively small caloric expenditure and it helps produce testosterone, an "vitality" -- strength -- enhancing hormone.

So, if one wants to buy into semen retention as part of one practice, fine. Just do not appeal to the Buddha as a justification of such, given that he did not teach it.

Here is a popular level discussion of sex before sports. And for those of us who are not monastics, the last sentence is of importance.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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