"Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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ihrjordan
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by ihrjordan »

tiltbillings wrote:
ihrjordan wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:You really do not understand the physiology of the human body. The production of blood and of semen are a natural course of thing. It is only a problem when there is excessive loss of blood, or if some guy tossing off constantly.
No sir it is you who do not understand. You don't just eat and then magically replace your semen blood and other vital tissues, it's a complex process which involves ones strength of digestion, the season, the type of food, the quantity consumed and any current imbalances of one's prikruti or (natural state, think endopmorph ectmorph etc). We in the west seem to hold this delusional belief that everything we ingest is properly assimilated by the body. THIS IS NOT SO. If this were the case nobody would ever be sick, because their bodies would get everything they need. There are two causes of disease 1. Toxic accumulation in the body from metabolic processes and 2. The decaying away from failure to properly assimilate nutrients due to toxemia which results in conditions like arthritis grey hair, erectile dysfunction, parkinsons, ms etc. These are all diseases of decay and bounced checks (meaning using more than one actually has) is it any wonder that these diseases are more prominent in the last stage of life when the digestive strength is at it's weakest?
So, the human body has evolved so inefficiently that sexual activity is a dangerous expenditure of energy.
You seem to think that evolution is a process of constant improvement but any evolutionary biologist will tell you that time doesn't necessarily grant advancement but rather variation. By that logic evolution should have granted us the ability to not feel suffering or need sleep by now seeing as how "everything is supposed to work in our favor"...
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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

tiltbillings wrote:You think answers the your question: "and you think normal to have to bleed every month?" You think "amenorrhea" is a normal, healthy human female condition for female at the age of puberty and beyond? I am trying to understand your question.
I just did a quick search on Google.

imagine what you will find if you search more?


:anjali:
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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

DN 26: Cakkavatti Sutta — The Wheel-turning Emperor

In the past, unskillful behavior was unknown among the human race. As a result, people lived for an immensely long time — 80,000 years — endowed with great beauty, wealth, pleasure, and strength. Over the course of time, though, they began behaving in various unskillful ways. This caused the human life span gradually to shorten, to the point where it now stands at 100 years, with human beauty, wealth, pleasure, and strength decreasing proportionately. In the future, as morality continues to degenerate, human life will continue to shorten to the point were the normal life span is 10 years, with people reaching sexual maturity at five. "Among those human beings, the ten courses of action (see AN 10.176) will have entirely disappeared... The word 'skillful' will not exist, so from where will there be anyone who does what is skillful? Those who lack the honorable qualities of motherhood, fatherhood, contemplative-hood, & brahman-hood will be the ones who receive homage... Fierce hatred will arise, fierce malevolence, fierce rage, & murderous thoughts: mother for child, child for mother, father for child, child for father, brother for sister, sister for brother." Ultimately, conditions will deteriorate to the point of a "sword-interval," in which swords appear in the hands of all human beings, and they hunt one another like game. A few people, however, will take shelter in the wilderness to escape the carnage, and when the slaughter is over, they will come out of hiding and resolve to take up a life of skillful and virtuous action again. With the recovery of virtue, the human life span will gradually increase again until it reaches 80,000 years, with people attaining sexual maturity at 500. Only three diseases will be known at that time: desire, lack of food, and old age. Another Buddha — Metteyya (Maitreya) — will gain Awakening, his monastic Sangha numbering in the thousands. The greatest king of the time, Sankha, will go forth into homelessness and attain arahantship under Metteyya's guidance.

The story, after chronicling the ups and downs of human wealth, life span, etc., concludes with the following lesson on kamma and skillful action.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html


:anjali:
I participate in this forum using Google Translator. http://translate.google.com.br

http://www.acessoaoinsight.net/
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ihrjordan
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by ihrjordan »

Lucas Oliveira wrote:DN 26: Cakkavatti Sutta — The Wheel-turning Emperor

In the past, unskillful behavior was unknown among the human race. As a result, people lived for an immensely long time — 80,000 years — endowed with great beauty, wealth, pleasure, and strength. Over the course of time, though, they began behaving in various unskillful ways. This caused the human life span gradually to shorten, to the point where it now stands at 100 years, with human beauty, wealth, pleasure, and strength decreasing proportionately. In the future, as morality continues to degenerate, human life will continue to shorten to the point were the normal life span is 10 years, with people reaching sexual maturity at five. "Among those human beings, the ten courses of action (see AN 10.176) will have entirely disappeared... The word 'skillful' will not exist, so from where will there be anyone who does what is skillful? Those who lack the honorable qualities of motherhood, fatherhood, contemplative-hood, & brahman-hood will be the ones who receive homage... Fierce hatred will arise, fierce malevolence, fierce rage, & murderous thoughts: mother for child, child for mother, father for child, child for father, brother for sister, sister for brother." Ultimately, conditions will deteriorate to the point of a "sword-interval," in which swords appear in the hands of all human beings, and they hunt one another like game. A few people, however, will take shelter in the wilderness to escape the carnage, and when the slaughter is over, they will come out of hiding and resolve to take up a life of skillful and virtuous action again. With the recovery of virtue, the human life span will gradually increase again until it reaches 80,000 years, with people attaining sexual maturity at 500. Only three diseases will be known at that time: desire, lack of food, and old age. Another Buddha — Metteyya (Maitreya) — will gain Awakening, his monastic Sangha numbering in the thousands. The greatest king of the time, Sankha, will go forth into homelessness and attain arahantship under Metteyya's guidance.

The story, after chronicling the ups and downs of human wealth, life span, etc., concludes with the following lesson on kamma and skillful action.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html


:anjali:
Buddhist/Dharmic Evolution for the skeptics Great post! :thumbsup:
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tiltbillings
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by tiltbillings »

ihrjordan wrote:
You seem to think that evolution is a process of constant improvement
I never said, or implied that, but evolution does tend to favor efficiency. The human male produces 1,500 sperm a second. We are designed by evolution to fairly effortlessly make sperm cells and to get rid of them: "if germline stem cells [in the testes] stay stem cells for a long time and don't change into sperm cells, a man may be at risk of getting testicular cancer.* The making of sperm and semen is a background process in the overall expenditure of energy in the male. A sexual release of semen also elicits a response of increased testosterone which is an increase in the body's vitality. Of course, this can be messed up, but one has to work rather at it, by having a orgasmic releases at a fairly prodigious rate. So, a bit of moderation might not be a bad idea, but the idea of sperm retention is not necessarily necessary, and it certainly is not something the Buddha taught.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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tiltbillings
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by tiltbillings »

Lucas Oliveira wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:You think answers the your question: "and you think normal to have to bleed every month?" You think "amenorrhea" is a normal, healthy human female condition for female at the age of puberty and beyond? I am trying to understand your question.
I just did a quick search on Google.

imagine what you will find if you search more?


:anjali:
In other words, you cannot answer the questions.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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ihrjordan
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by ihrjordan »

tiltbillings wrote:
ihrjordan wrote:
You seem to think that evolution is a process of constant improvement
I never said, or implied that, but evolution does tend to favor efficiency. The human male produces 1,500 sperm a second. We are designed by evolution to fairly effortlessly make sperm cells and to get rid of them: "if germline stem cells [in the testes] stay stem cells for a long time and don't change into sperm cells, a man may be at risk of getting testicular cancer.* The making of sperm and semen is a background process in the overall expenditure of energy in the male. A sexual release of semen also elicits a response of increased testosterone which is an increase in the body's vitality. Of course, this can be messed up, but one has to work rather at it, by having a orgasmic releases at a fairly prodigious rate. So, a bit of moderation might not be a bad idea, but the idea of sperm retention is not necessarily necessary, and it certainly is not something the Buddha taught.
I guess as with everything it comes down to one's experience as that's all we have in the end. If one finds no loss of vitality in sexual activity then by all means, I could care less what another does with their bodily fluids. I'm just making this side of the story known in order for others to make informed decisions in line with their objective observations after all everything that shines isn't always gold. All the best.
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tiltbillings
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by tiltbillings »

ihrjordan wrote: I could care less what another does with their bodily fluids.
So, you still care.
      • The bottom line, however, is that the Buddha did not teach sperm/semen retention.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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ihrjordan
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by ihrjordan »

tiltbillings wrote:
ihrjordan wrote: I could care less what another does with their bodily fluids.
So, you still care.
      • The bottom line, however, is that the Buddha did not teach sperm/semen retention.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/lexicon_vall ... might.html
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tiltbillings
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by tiltbillings »

ihrjordan wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
ihrjordan wrote: I could care less what another does with their bodily fluids.
So, you still care.
      • The bottom line, however, is that the Buddha did not teach sperm/semen retention.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/lexicon_vall ... might.html
Your statement is grammatically correct, you could care less, is what you said. In other words, you still care, which is not a bad thing, I suppose. Certainly, I would not want to think that you are some sort of uncaring of fellow. .

Nonetheless:
      • The bottom line, however, is that the Buddha did not teach sperm/semen retention.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
denise
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by denise »

hi all...remember when athletes were told no sex...guess the coaches back in the day thought it would rob their athletes of energy? talking the 60s here... :tongue:
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tiltbillings
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by tiltbillings »

denise wrote:hi all...remember when athletes were told no sex...guess the coaches back in the day thought it would rob their athletes of energy? talking the 60s here... :tongue:
See: http://greatist.com/fitness/sex-and-spo ... n-big-game
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
denise
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by denise »

thanks Tilt...about the mind over matter part of the article you posted....always had to run foot races in a pair of orange shorts...thought it would help...kinda of did until the fantasy wore off...gave up the orange shorts... :smile:
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Aloka
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by Aloka »

ihrjordan wrote:..... eventually ripened in a condition of pain and strong winds
I recommend gentle exercises (and if one is indoors, an open window).

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Pinetree
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Re: "Moderation in what is beneficial"? - Yoga connections.

Post by Pinetree »

The body has a good reason to expel the semen, and it has evolved a highly pleasurable connexion for expelling semen so that it will want to do it, and do it often.
I'd like to comment on the "often" point:

Recently, I caught on TV, few minutes from a show where a medical doctor was invited to speak about male infertility. And he said that, for the male patients trying to have a baby with their partners, it is advised that they do not have sex 1 month before.

Which we could apply to our discussion to imply that there is some loss of "vital force" that would be preserved by avoiding ejaculation.
Having sex only results in a relatively small caloric expenditure and it helps produce testosterone
Actually, I believe it reduces testosterone.

I've read a long time ago a research displaying a graph that was showing that testosterone levels decrease after sex, then start to increase, until they reach a higher stable level maybe 1-2 weeks later.
I never said, or implied that, but evolution does tend to favor efficiency.
Efficiency, but only by it's definition, not by ours. For example, evolution doesn't necessarily want us to stay healthy or "efficient" long after the fertility age, which starts in puberty.
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