The Bodhisattva Ideal in Mahayana Buddhism

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
chownah
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Re: The Bodhisattva Ideal in Mahayana Buddhism

Post by chownah »

Santi253 wrote:
chownah wrote: This "guarantee" might be why the boddhisatva ideal is so popular with the mahayana.
chownah
Having the assurance of future Buddhahood doesn't necessarily mean that it will be easy. It might take several kalpas to fulfill. It took many lifetimes for Shakyamuni himself to attain Buddhahood.
I wonder how many people would take the bodhisaattva vows if there was no guarantee.
chownah
Santi253
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Re: The Bodhisattva Ideal in Mahayana Buddhism

Post by Santi253 »

chownah wrote:
Santi253 wrote:
chownah wrote: This "guarantee" might be why the boddhisatva ideal is so popular with the mahayana.
chownah
Having the assurance of future Buddhahood doesn't necessarily mean that it will be easy. It might take several kalpas to fulfill. It took many lifetimes for Shakyamuni himself to attain Buddhahood.
I wonder how many people would take the bodhisaattva vows if there was no guarantee.
chownah
If someone does bad things all their life, assuming that they will get to become Buddhas anyway, then they will end up further away from Buddhahood than someone who never claimed to be Buddhist at all.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's many Buddhists who've been reborn into hell realms or as an animal, thinking that their profession of faith in Buddhism protected them.

The whole idea of the Bodhisattva vow is that one, in this lifetime, works on being a more kind, compassionate, and ethical person, here and now.

It's otherwise a meaningless vow that gets a person no closer to Buddhahood. An aspiration has no power to do anything without accompanying action.

If a person vows to attain Buddhahood for the sake of all other beings, then they must work on being compassionate to others right now. Otherwise, it's just empty talk.

The words alone, by themselves, of taking a vow have no effect if not accompanied by action, however small that action might be. The Lotus Sutra says, for example, that if children build stupas made of sand in homage to the Buddha, then this will plant the seed which ultimately grows into Buddhahood.

The only way to ensure that your next rebirth will set you further along the goal to Buddhahood is if, here and now, you put the Buddha's teachings into practice.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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oncereturner
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Re: The Bodhisattva Ideal in Mahayana Buddhism

Post by oncereturner »

There is a modern song, on this topic. I do not mention the authors.
It's pleasant to the ears and to the mind.
If you want to listen to it, then buy it. The lyrics are for free.
As I develop the awakening mind
I praise the Buddhas as they shine
I bow before you as I travel my path
To join your ranks, I make my full-time task
For the sake of all beings I seek
The enlightened mind that I know I'll reap
Respect to Shantideva and all the others
Who brought down the Dharma for the sisters and brothers
I give thanks for this world as a place to learn
And for this human body that I know I've earned
And my deepest thanks to all sentient beings
For without them, there would be no place to learn what I'm seeing
There's nothing here that's not been said before
But I put it down now so that I'll be sure
To solidify my own views
And I'll be glad if it helps anyone else out too

If others disrespect me or give me flak
I'll stop and think before I react
Knowing that they're going through insecure stages
I'll take the opportunity to exercise patience
I'll see it as a chance to help the other person
Nip it in the bud before it can worsen
A chance for me to be strong and sure
As I think on the Buddhas who have come before
As I praise and respect the good they've done
Knowing love can conquer hate in every situation
We need other people in order to create
The circumstances for the learning that we're here to generate
Situations that bring up our deepest fears
So we can work to release them until they're cleared
Therefore, it only makes sense
To thank our enemies despite their intent

The Bodhisattva path is one of power and strength
A strength from within to go the length
Seeing others are as important as myself
I strive for a happiness of mental wealth
With the interconnectedness that we share as one
Every action that we take affects everyone
So in deciding for what a situation calls
There is a path for the good for all
I try to make my every action for that highest good
With the altruistic wish to achieve Buddhahood
So I pledge here before everyone who's listening
To try to make my every action for the good of all beings
For the rest of my lifetimes and even beyond
I vow to do my best, to do no harm
And in times of doubt, I can think on the Dharma
And the Enlightened Ones who've graduated Samsara
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8
Santi253
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Re: The Bodhisattva Ideal in Mahayana Buddhism

Post by Santi253 »

I don't claim to know for certain that Mahayana Buddhism is true or that any religion is true. I just know that if people actually followed the Bodhisattva ideal, as to be kinder and more compassionate to others, they would have happier lives and the world would be a better place, here and now.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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Santi253
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Re: The Bodhisattva Ideal in Mahayana Buddhism

Post by Santi253 »

On a daily basis, I try to remember to recite and live by the four vows of a Bodhisattva:
Suffering beings are incalculable; I vow to save them all.
Delusions are inexhaustible; I vow to quench them all.
The teachings are unfathomable; I vow to master them all.
The Buddha Way is unsurpassable; I vow to attain it.
The purpose of frequently reciting these vows is to remind ourselves to live more compassionately and unselfishly. Even if we are not able to literally fulfill the above vows, it's the spirit of compassion and unselfishness that really matters.

If Theravada Buddhists already have their own way to help them live more compassionately and unselfishly, then I am not going to tell them that they should take the Bodhisattva vows. The Buddha taught things in different ways for different people, based on their individual temperaments.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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Santi253
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Re: The Bodhisattva Ideal in Mahayana Buddhism

Post by Santi253 »

At the local Vietnamese Mahayana temple, there is a plaque on the temple grounds which emphasizes the importance of practicing mindfulness and righteous conduct at all times to attain Nirvana.

It does not say that one should avoid Nirvana, which is a common misconception about Mahayana Buddhism. The Nirvana which a Mahayana Buddhist seeks is called non-abiding Nirvana:
Thubten Thardo (Gareth Sparham) states: “The term “non-abiding nirvāṇa” indicates that a fully awakened buddha is utterly free from saṃsāra, yet due to compassion has not entered into a more restricted form of nirvāṇa that precludes continued activity within the world.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_(Buddhism)
Since the Bodhisattva sees beyond the duality between Nirvana and samsara, he/she is able to attain Nirvana while also remaining in the world after death, rather than simply transcending the world.

The Bodhisattva attains Nirvana before ultimately attaining Buddhahood, so there would be nothing wrong with a Mahayana Buddhist learning from Theravada teachers how to attain Nirvana, if the Mahayana Buddhist maintains his belief in non-abiding Nirvana in the process.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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Santi253
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Re: The Bodhisattva Ideal in Mahayana Buddhism

Post by Santi253 »

As explained in the Jataka tales, which are part of Theravada literature, the Six Paramitas are the means by which Shakyamuni attained Buddhahood:
Perhaps the earliest genre of Buddhist literature in which the pāramitās appear are the collections of Jātakas, the stories of the Buddha’s previous lives.

The pāramitās in these stories provide major underlying themes, such as self-sacrifice, ethical virtue, and patience, that demonstrate the magnificent qualities developed by the Buddha in his previous lives by carrying out moral acts as a bodhisattva on the bodhisattva path.

In the Aviṣahya Jātaka, for example, the bodhisattva cultivates the perfection of generosity (dānapāramitā) by donating alms to supplicants in spite of being reduced to poverty. The bodhisattva is a boy who refuses to steal, even after encouragement from his Brahmin teacher to do so, in the Brāhmaṇa Jātaka, to illustrate the cultivation of the perfection of morality (śīlapāramitā). In the Kṣāntivādin Jātaka, the bodhisattva is an ascetic who cultivates the perfection of forbearance (kṣāntipāramitā) by tolerating being violently disfigured by an angry king.5 Most Buddhist groups (nikāya) had collections of Jātakas that differed in length and number.

Buddhist groups and movements also understood the purport of the Jātakas differently, with mainstream groups like the Theravāda seeing the perfections in the Jātakas as qualities to be admired, while Mahāyāna movements understood the perfections in the Jātakas as models to emulate.
http://religion.oxfordre.com/view/10.10 ... 0378-e-193
The Bodhisattva path is nothing more and nothing less than the same path taken by the Buddha in his previous lives, which led to his ultimate attainment of Buddhahood.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.matthewsatori.tumblr.com
chownah
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Re: The Bodhisattva Ideal in Mahayana Buddhism

Post by chownah »

Santi253 wrote:As explained in the Jataka tales, which are part of Theravada literature, the Six Paramitas are the means by which Shakyamuni attained Buddhahood:
Perhaps the earliest genre of Buddhist literature in which the pāramitās appear are the collections of Jātakas, the stories of the Buddha’s previous lives.

The pāramitās in these stories provide major underlying themes, such as self-sacrifice, ethical virtue, and patience, that demonstrate the magnificent qualities developed by the Buddha in his previous lives by carrying out moral acts as a bodhisattva on the bodhisattva path.

In the Aviṣahya Jātaka, for example, the bodhisattva cultivates the perfection of generosity (dānapāramitā) by donating alms to supplicants in spite of being reduced to poverty. The bodhisattva is a boy who refuses to steal, even after encouragement from his Brahmin teacher to do so, in the Brāhmaṇa Jātaka, to illustrate the cultivation of the perfection of morality (śīlapāramitā). In the Kṣāntivādin Jātaka, the bodhisattva is an ascetic who cultivates the perfection of forbearance (kṣāntipāramitā) by tolerating being violently disfigured by an angry king.5 Most Buddhist groups (nikāya) had collections of Jātakas that differed in length and number.

Buddhist groups and movements also understood the purport of the Jātakas differently, with mainstream groups like the Theravāda seeing the perfections in the Jātakas as qualities to be admired, while Mahāyāna movements understood the perfections in the Jātakas as models to emulate.
http://religion.oxfordre.com/view/10.10 ... 0378-e-193
The Bodhisattva path is nothing more and nothing less than the same path taken by the Buddha in his previous lives, which led to his ultimate attainment of Buddhahood.
I think that the jataka tales are not considered to be part of the pali canon....they are not considered to be scripture but just some stories.
chownah
Santi253
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Re: The Bodhisattva Ideal in Mahayana Buddhism

Post by Santi253 »

chownah wrote: I think that the jataka tales are not considered to be part of the pali canon....they are not considered to be scripture but just some stories.
chownah
In Theravada Buddhism, the Jātakas are a textual division of the Pāli Canon, included in the Khuddaka Nikaya of the Sutta Pitaka. The term Jātaka may also refer to a traditional commentary on this book.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jataka_tales
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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Phena
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Re: The Bodhisattva Ideal in Mahayana Buddhism

Post by Phena »

Santi253 wrote:As explained in the Jataka tales, which are part of Theravada literature, the Six Paramitas are the means by which Shakyamuni attained Buddhahood:
Perhaps the earliest genre of Buddhist literature in which the pāramitās appear are the collections of Jātakas, the stories of the Buddha’s previous lives.

The pāramitās in these stories provide major underlying themes, such as self-sacrifice, ethical virtue, and patience, that demonstrate the magnificent qualities developed by the Buddha in his previous lives by carrying out moral acts as a bodhisattva on the bodhisattva path.

In the Aviṣahya Jātaka, for example, the bodhisattva cultivates the perfection of generosity (dānapāramitā) by donating alms to supplicants in spite of being reduced to poverty. The bodhisattva is a boy who refuses to steal, even after encouragement from his Brahmin teacher to do so, in the Brāhmaṇa Jātaka, to illustrate the cultivation of the perfection of morality (śīlapāramitā). In the Kṣāntivādin Jātaka, the bodhisattva is an ascetic who cultivates the perfection of forbearance (kṣāntipāramitā) by tolerating being violently disfigured by an angry king.5 Most Buddhist groups (nikāya) had collections of Jātakas that differed in length and number.

Buddhist groups and movements also understood the purport of the Jātakas differently, with mainstream groups like the Theravāda seeing the perfections in the Jātakas as qualities to be admired, while Mahāyāna movements understood the perfections in the Jātakas as models to emulate.
http://religion.oxfordre.com/view/10.10 ... 0378-e-193
The Bodhisattva path is nothing more and nothing less than the same path taken by the Buddha in his previous lives, which led to his ultimate attainment of Buddhahood.
Bodhisattva just means "Buddha to be". When the Buddha speaks of being a Bodhisattva, he always refers to himself as an "unawakened Bhodisatta". His spiritual faculties as he illustrates were still quite undeveloped, right up until his awakening.
Phena
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Re: The Bodhisattva Ideal in Mahayana Buddhism

Post by Phena »

  • I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying at Savatthi, in Jeta's Grove, Anathapindika's monastery. There he addressed the monks: "Monks!"

    "Yes, lord," the monks replied.

    The Blessed One said, "Monks, before my self-awakening, when I was still just an unawakened Bodhisatta, the thought occurred to me: 'Why don't I keep dividing my thinking into two sorts?' So I made thinking imbued with sensuality, thinking imbued with ill will, & thinking imbued with harmfulness one sort, and thinking imbued with renunciation, thinking imbued with non-ill will, & thinking imbued with harmlessness another sort.

Dvedhavitakka Sutta: Two Sorts of Thinking
chownah
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Re: The Bodhisattva Ideal in Mahayana Buddhism

Post by chownah »

Santi253 wrote:
chownah wrote: I think that the jataka tales are not considered to be part of the pali canon....they are not considered to be scripture but just some stories.
chownah
In Theravada Buddhism, the Jātakas are a textual division of the Pāli Canon, included in the Khuddaka Nikaya of the Sutta Pitaka. The term Jātaka may also refer to a traditional commentary on this book.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jataka_tales
This is like deja vu. I'll just paste in here what I put in the other place....I didn't realize that I commented on the jataka in two places!

Paste:
Indeed they are. I was wrong about that. When I first read some parts of some jatakas they seemed to me to be at odds with the core teachings of the buddha and after hearing what many learned people said about them I am of the opinion that they are not buddha's teaching and are allegories or parables used to teach. I believe that it was a monk here at dhammawheel which suggested that the jataka tales are not considered to be scriptural but that the commentaries or explanations are considered to be scriptural. Somehow I guess I didn't absorb the information that the jataka tales are in fact in the suttas.....probably because since I don't think that they are the teachings of the buddha I have mostly writtten them off.
chownah
p.s. They definitely are pali literature since anything that is old enough and is written in pali is pali literature.....but I guess that not all pali literature is the teaching of the buddha.
chownah
Santi253
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Re: The Bodhisattva Ideal in Mahayana Buddhism

Post by Santi253 »

The simple fact of the matter is that I have a great deal of respect for Theravada Buddhism, and the vast majority of the world's Theravada Buddhists are not against Mahayana Buddhism:
https://dhammawiki.com/index.php?title= ... d_Mahayana

The only reason why I started this thread in the first place was to clear up common misconceptions about Mahayana Buddhism, so there can be more tolerance and understanding. I have no intent for Buddhists to convert from one sect to another.
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oncereturner
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Re: The Bodhisattva Ideal in Mahayana Buddhism

Post by oncereturner »

I learned this song is available. So I share it. :)
I'm still at this level of understanding. I know nothing about Mahayana, but open-minded, I will read on this topic.

"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8
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SDC
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Re: The Bodhisattva Ideal in Mahayana Buddhism

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Moderator Note: This is the "Connections to Other Paths" section of the forum. Any further vilification of other traditions, or direct attacks against one another will result in board discipline.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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