Nāgārjuna

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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confusedlayman
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Re: Nāgārjuna

Post by confusedlayman »

“Nirmamo nirahamkaro yas ca so ’pi na vidyate,
nirmamam nirahamkaram yah pasyati na pasyati.” (Ch.XVIII.3)
“Memety aham iti ksine bahirdhadhyatmam eva ca,
Nirudhyata upadanam tat ksayaj janmanah ksayah.” (Ch.XVIII.4)

Nagarjuna argues again that “When views pertaining to “mine” and “I””
have withered away “then grasping comes to cease.”61 When grasping ceases
then all sorts of extreme obsessions such as attraction and aversion, hedonism
and excessive asceticism will also cease. Thus when all the obsessions have
drooped the soullessness is realized which means realization of emptiness.

can some one explain me above.. if centering awareness of observation also should be comphrended or investigated or how?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Nāgārjuna

Post by Ceisiwr »

confusedlayman wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:18 am “Nirmamo nirahamkaro yas ca so ’pi na vidyate,
nirmamam nirahamkaram yah pasyati na pasyati.” (Ch.XVIII.3)
“Memety aham iti ksine bahirdhadhyatmam eva ca,
Nirudhyata upadanam tat ksayaj janmanah ksayah.” (Ch.XVIII.4)

Nagarjuna argues again that “When views pertaining to “mine” and “I””
have withered away “then grasping comes to cease.”61 When grasping ceases
then all sorts of extreme obsessions such as attraction and aversion, hedonism
and excessive asceticism will also cease. Thus when all the obsessions have
drooped the soullessness is realized which means realization of emptiness.

can some one explain me above.. if centering awareness of observation also should be comphrended or investigated or how?
Well that is blatantly wrong. The sense of “I” comes from grasping, not the other way around.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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confusedlayman
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Re: Nāgārjuna

Post by confusedlayman »

Ceisiwr wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:26 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:18 am “Nirmamo nirahamkaro yas ca so ’pi na vidyate,
nirmamam nirahamkaram yah pasyati na pasyati.” (Ch.XVIII.3)
“Memety aham iti ksine bahirdhadhyatmam eva ca,
Nirudhyata upadanam tat ksayaj janmanah ksayah.” (Ch.XVIII.4)

Nagarjuna argues again that “When views pertaining to “mine” and “I””
have withered away “then grasping comes to cease.”61 When grasping ceases
then all sorts of extreme obsessions such as attraction and aversion, hedonism
and excessive asceticism will also cease. Thus when all the obsessions have
drooped the soullessness is realized which means realization of emptiness.

can some one explain me above.. if centering awareness of observation also should be comphrended or investigated or how?
Well that is blatantly wrong. The sense of “I” comes from grasping, not the other way around.
When i wake up i hear music... I want to hear music comes from clingingnto music?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Nāgārjuna

Post by Coëmgenu »

A better translation of MMK18.2-4:

2. If the self did not exist, where could what is mine exist? In order to pacify self and what is mine, grasping "I" and grasping "mine" can exist no more.

3. The one who does not grasp at me and mine likewise does not exist. Whoever sees the one who does not grasp at "me" and "mine" does not see.

4. When one ceases thinking of inner and outer things as self and mine, clinging has come to a stop. Through that ceasing, birth will cease.
Last edited by Coëmgenu on Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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confusedlayman
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Re: Nāgārjuna

Post by confusedlayman »

Coëmgenu wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:44 pm A better translation of MMK18.2-4:

2. If the self did not exist, where could what is mine exist? In order to pacify self and what is mine, grasping "I" and grasping "mine" can exist no more.

3. The one who does not grasp at me and mine likewise
does not exist. Whoever sees the one who does not
grasp at "me" and "mine" does not see.

4. When one ceases thinking of inner and outer things as
self and mine, clinging has come to a stop. Through
that ceasing, birth will cease.
Thanks
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confusedlayman
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Re: Nāgārjuna

Post by confusedlayman »

Ven. nagarjuna practices or encourage practicing form, formless and limitless brahma vihara... just found it in one of his book (ratnavilli i think)
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SteRo
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Re: Nāgārjuna

Post by SteRo »

Ratnavali is a Mahayana treatise.
Precious Garland (Skt. Ratnāvalī or Ratnamāla; Tib. རིན་ཆེན་ཕྲེང་བ་, rinchen trengwa, Wyl. rin chen phreng ba) — a shastra written by Nagarjuna and belonging to his Collection of Advice.

In the Precious Garland, Nagarjuna offers advice on how to conduct our lives and how to construct social policies that reflect Buddhist ideals.

The advice for personal happiness is concerned first with improving our condition over the course of lifetimes and then with release from all kinds of suffering, culminating in Buddhahood. Nagarjuna describes the cause and effect sequences for the development of happiness within ordinary life, as well as the practices that lead us to enlightenment--the practices for developing wisdom, or the realization of emptiness, and compassion. He also describes the qualities of the buddhas.

In his advice on social and governmental policy, Nagarjuna emphasizes education and compassionate care for all living beings, and states his opposition to the death penalty, and appeals for charity for the homeless. Calling for the appointment of government figures who do not seek profit or fame, he advises that a selfish motivation will lead to misfortune.
https://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?tit ... us_Garland
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confusedlayman
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Re: Nāgārjuna

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Is there any madhamaka teacher who really understood nagarjuna message? I need the names or website or youtube.

in utube some teacher proclaim they teach but they teach only introcution or his life or bodhisatta vows but not his core teaching or explaning his teaching to layman.
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SteRo
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Re: Nāgārjuna

Post by SteRo »

confusedlayman wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:08 pm in utube some teacher proclaim they teach but they teach only introcution or his life or bodhisatta vows but not his core teaching or explaning his teaching to layman.
That's the drawback of living so called 'teachers' who purport to teach nagarjuna. Since they are all mahayanists they attract listeners with great announcements and lecture titles but then they try to brainwash their audience with mahayana doctrine.
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Nāgārjuna

Post by Coëmgenu »

SteRo wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:40 am
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:08 pm in utube some teacher proclaim they teach but they teach only introcution or his life or bodhisatta vows but not his core teaching or explaning his teaching to layman.
That's the drawback of living so called 'teachers' who purport to teach nagarjuna. Since they are all mahayanists they attract listeners with great announcements and lecture titles but then they try to brainwash their audience with mahayana doctrine.
Have you met my friend, Kettle?
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
SteRo
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Re: Nāgārjuna

Post by SteRo »

SteRo wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:40 am
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:08 pm in utube some teacher proclaim they teach but they teach only introcution or his life or bodhisatta vows but not his core teaching or explaning his teaching to layman.
That's the drawback of living so called 'teachers' who purport to teach nagarjuna. Since they are all mahayanists they attract listeners with great announcements and lecture titles but then they try to brainwash their audience with mahayana doctrine.
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:08 pm Is there any madhamaka teacher who really understood nagarjuna message? I need the names or website or youtube.
On the other hand there are so many commentaries on nagajuna as books available for everyone today that it is impossible to not understand nagarjuna if one intends to get to understand his madhyamaka writings without getting involved in distracting mahayana doctrine.
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confusedlayman
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Re: Nāgārjuna

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SteRo wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:42 pm
SteRo wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:40 am
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:08 pm in utube some teacher proclaim they teach but they teach only introcution or his life or bodhisatta vows but not his core teaching or explaning his teaching to layman.
That's the drawback of living so called 'teachers' who purport to teach nagarjuna. Since they are all mahayanists they attract listeners with great announcements and lecture titles but then they try to brainwash their audience with mahayana doctrine.
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:08 pm Is there any madhamaka teacher who really understood nagarjuna message? I need the names or website or youtube.
On the other hand there are so many commentaries on nagajuna as books available for everyone today that it is impossible to not understand nagarjuna if one intends to get to understand his madhyamaka writings without getting involved in distracting mahayana doctrine.
is he telling non clinging to any views? this is what i get from partial reading..

he speaks of conditional arising but due to cause and condition (not existance or non existance based)..
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Re: Nāgārjuna

Post by SteRo »

confusedlayman wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:25 pm
SteRo wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:42 pm
SteRo wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:40 am
That's the drawback of living so called 'teachers' who purport to teach nagarjuna. Since they are all mahayanists they attract listeners with great announcements and lecture titles but then they try to brainwash their audience with mahayana doctrine.
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:08 pm Is there any madhamaka teacher who really understood nagarjuna message? I need the names or website or youtube.
On the other hand there are so many commentaries on nagajuna as books available for everyone today that it is impossible to not understand nagarjuna if one intends to get to understand his madhyamaka writings without getting involved in distracting mahayana doctrine.
is he telling non clinging to any views? this is what i get from partial reading..
Chapter 27 of MMK is titled "Analysis of views". Read and study commentaries on it.
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confusedlayman
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Re: Nāgārjuna

Post by confusedlayman »

SteRo wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:30 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:25 pm
SteRo wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:42 pm



On the other hand there are so many commentaries on nagajuna as books available for everyone today that it is impossible to not understand nagarjuna if one intends to get to understand his madhyamaka writings without getting involved in distracting mahayana doctrine.
is he telling non clinging to any views? this is what i get from partial reading..
Chapter 27 of MMK is titled "Analysis of views". Read and study commentaries on it.
Yes I read it now. it leads to empty or absence of ego ... same feeling when I got long back which is charecterized by contentness and stillness while alert.. I got this same exp when reading sutta in which ven ananda teach.
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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salayatananirodha
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Re: Nāgārjuna

Post by salayatananirodha »

nanananda spoke in praise of nagarjuna on more than one occasion
which i think led to op's interest in him
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