Who/what do you think the Christian god is?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Who/what do you think the Christian god is?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

None of the above:

God belief is a Poisoned Arrow
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Caodemarte
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Re: Who/what do you think the Christian god is?

Post by Caodemarte »

Who do Christians believe their god is? There are over 2,000 years of sophisticated theology that argue against all the naïve Sunday school descriptions here (not to say that some people may embrace what the Pope called the flying magician with a beard heresy and its variants). It would be better to ask what does specific Christian X believe.
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Sam Vara
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Re: Who/what do you think the Christian god is?

Post by Sam Vara »

Caodemarte wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:25 pm Who do Christians believe their god is? There are over 2,000 years of sophisticated theology that argue against all the naïve Sunday school descriptions here (not to say that some people may embrace what the Pope called the flying magician with a beard heresy and its variants). It would be better to ask what does specific Christian X believe.
:goodpost:

Excellent point. If you were to go to a Christian forum and ask them what they thought was meant by (say) Nibbana, or anatta, they would probably have a good deal of knockabout fun with it.

My guess is, though, that the discussion would do more to signal their Christian credentials than to further anyone's understanding.
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confusedlayman
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Re: Who/what do you think the Christian god is?

Post by confusedlayman »

according to scientific research, humans were not created as such. it says some 6th day or 7th day, 2 humans created. but evolution says, it took millions of life time to get humans from animals. even human itself is not absolute being, they are still in evolution each and every second. in future humans may evolve to have wings and four hands. so they will see us as undeveloped species lol.

the one who wrote bible clearly thought everything as permanent, stable etc which is wrong view. humans can't be created as such unless permanent absolute non changing reality is true which comes under wrong view.

Who is christian god? from the text it should be given. however, I never read bible in life, so my guess is Jesus or Allah?
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ehensens
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Re: Who/what do you think the Christian god is?

Post by ehensens »

SarathW wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:34 pm Whether Buddhist, non-Buddhist or Athiest we all follow the Eight Fold Path.
Hello SarathW :hello:

Could you please explain in what way an atheist follows the eight fold path?

Thank you,
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sentinel
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Re: Who/what do you think the Christian god is?

Post by sentinel »

Hebrew god = Asura
Christian god = kama loka god , probably equal to sakka realm god but NOT sakka himself or possibly resemble the Devas Delighting in Creation (nimmanarati deva) . These devas delight in the sense objects of their own creation .
The Christian god has some female retinue , whereas Brahma realms appear to have male form deity only .

I am a buddhist from beginning but I dreamt of children angels before . So I guess this can be seen as gandhabba rank .
You always gain by giving
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Gwi
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Re: Who/what do you think the Christian god is?

Post by Gwi »

KiwiNFLFan wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:50 pm I'm an ex-Christian who is now a Buddhist. I was involved in all three branches of Christianity over the years - Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant.

I'm curious as to what other Theravada Buddhists think about the god of Christianity. Does he exist?

To recap, the god of Christianity is an insanely jealous being who created two naive humans, put them in a garden with a tree they weren't allowed to eat from, then kicked them out of the garden when they did eat from it, and cursed all their descendants with mortality because of it. In order to reconcile mankind to himself and let them into his presence, he had to become man (Jesus), live a sinless life and be brutally killed as a sacrifice to himself. But only those who believe in Jesus get to be with god after death. All unbelievers will go to hell where they will be tortured forever.

These are the options I can think of:
  • Doesn't exist
  • A hell being
  • A hungry ghost
  • An asura
  • A deva
  • A brahma
  • Sakka (Venerable Hsuan Hua taught that the Christian god was Sakka)
  • None of the above

These 10 questions if answered correctly,
Answered by letting it go:

1. Is the cosmos eternal?
2. Is the cosmos not eternal?
3. Is the world finite?
4. Is the world infinite?
5. Are the soul and the body same thing?
6. Are the soul and the body different things?
7. Does GOD exists?
8. Does GOD not exist?
9. Does GOD both exists and doesn’t exist?
10. Does GOD neither exists nor doesn’t exist?


Out of 10, 100, 1 trillion or more questions,
Ten were answered by letting it be.

Whether god exists or not, and so on,
The most important thing is to study
the contents of the holy book.
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
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DooDoot
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Re: Who/what do you think the Christian god is?

Post by DooDoot »

Gwi wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:32 am Whether god exists or not, and so on,
The most important thing is to study
the contents of the holy book.
Hebrew God (apart from its use for tribal eugenics) is an anthropomorphic representation of the law of karma.
Exodus 20:5

“You shall not bow down to [idols] or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me.”
This is the correct view for a modern Buddhist. If Judaism achieves its goal of ruling the world from Jerusalem, a Buddhist should speak correctly to avoid Buddhism being put to the sword. God = Law. Dhamma = Law.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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DiamondNgXZ
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Re: Who/what do you think the Christian god is?

Post by DiamondNgXZ »

Gwi wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:32 am
KiwiNFLFan wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:50 pm I'm an ex-Christian who is now a Buddhist. I was involved in all three branches of Christianity over the years - Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant.

I'm curious as to what other Theravada Buddhists think about the god of Christianity. Does he exist?

To recap, the god of Christianity is an insanely jealous being who created two naive humans, put them in a garden with a tree they weren't allowed to eat from, then kicked them out of the garden when they did eat from it, and cursed all their descendants with mortality because of it. In order to reconcile mankind to himself and let them into his presence, he had to become man (Jesus), live a sinless life and be brutally killed as a sacrifice to himself. But only those who believe in Jesus get to be with god after death. All unbelievers will go to hell where they will be tortured forever.

These are the options I can think of:
  • Doesn't exist
  • A hell being
  • A hungry ghost
  • An asura
  • A deva
  • A brahma
  • Sakka (Venerable Hsuan Hua taught that the Christian god was Sakka)
  • None of the above

These 10 questions if answered correctly,
Answered by letting it go:

1. Is the cosmos eternal?
2. Is the cosmos not eternal?
3. Is the world finite?
4. Is the world infinite?
5. Are the soul and the body same thing?
6. Are the soul and the body different things?
7. Does GOD exists?
8. Does GOD not exist?
9. Does GOD both exists and doesn’t exist?
10. Does GOD neither exists nor doesn’t exist?


Out of 10, 100, 1 trillion or more questions,
Ten were answered by letting it be.

Whether god exists or not, and so on,
The most important thing is to study
the contents of the holy book.
Seriously? Which translator mistaken the Tathāgata for God? You might want to recheck the sources of your dhamma for more mistranslation errors.

https://suttacentral.net/mn63/en/bodhi

No. 7- 10 refers to the Buddha, there's no God in Buddhism.
“These speculative views have been left undeclared by the Blessed One, set aside and rejected by him, namely: ‘the world is eternal’ and ‘the world is not eternal’; ‘the world is finite’ and ‘the world is infinite’; ‘the soul is the same as the body’ and ‘the soul is one thing and the body another’; and ‘after death a Tathāgata exists’ and ‘after death a Tathāgata does not exist’ and ‘after death a Tathāgata both exists and does not exist’ and ‘after death a Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist.’
DiamondNgXZ
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Re: Who/what do you think the Christian god is?

Post by DiamondNgXZ »

KiwiNFLFan wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:50 pm I'm an ex-Christian who is now a Buddhist. I was involved in all three branches of Christianity over the years - Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant.

I'm curious as to what other Theravada Buddhists think about the god of Christianity. Does he exist?

To recap, the god of Christianity is an insanely jealous being who created two naive humans, put them in a garden with a tree they weren't allowed to eat from, then kicked them out of the garden when they did eat from it, and cursed all their descendants with mortality because of it. In order to reconcile mankind to himself and let them into his presence, he had to become man (Jesus), live a sinless life and be brutally killed as a sacrifice to himself. But only those who believe in Jesus get to be with god after death. All unbelievers will go to hell where they will be tortured forever.

These are the options I can think of:
  • Doesn't exist
  • A hell being
  • A hungry ghost
  • An asura
  • A deva
  • A brahma
  • Sakka (Venerable Hsuan Hua taught that the Christian god was Sakka)
  • None of the above
By the way you defined it, doesn't exist. Cause DN 27 https://suttacentral.net/dn27/en/sujato, origin of humans is not the same as the origin of Christian creator God story. Say if we remove the role of creation from God, then

The role of prophets claiming to see the divine. Or mystics, Christian monks etc, DN1 posits the closest match to the new testament God to be MahaBrahma: https://suttacentral.net/dn1/en/sujato
There comes a time when, after a very long period has passed, this cosmos contracts. As the cosmos contracts, sentient beings are mostly headed for the realm of streaming radiance. There they are mind-made, feeding on rapture, self-luminous, moving through the sky, steadily glorious, and they remain like that for a very long time.

There comes a time when, after a very long period has passed, this cosmos expands. As it expands an empty mansion of Brahmā appears. Then a certain sentient being—due to the running out of their life-span or merit—passes away from that host of radiant deities and is reborn in that empty mansion of Brahmā. There they are mind-made, feeding on rapture, self-luminous, moving through the sky, steadily glorious, and they remain like that for a very long time.

But after staying there all alone for a long time, they become dissatisfied and anxious: ‘Oh, if only another being would come to this state of existence.’ Then other sentient beings—due to the running out of their life-span or merit—pass away from that host of radiant deities and are reborn in that empty mansion of Brahmā in company with that being. There they too are mind-made, feeding on rapture, self-luminous, moving through the sky, steadily glorious, and they remain like that for a very long time.

Now, the being who was reborn there first thinks: ‘I am Brahmā, the Great Brahmā, the Undefeated, the Champion, the Universal Seer, the Wielder of Power, the Lord God, the Maker, the Author, the First, the Begetter, the Controller, the Father of those who have been born and those yet to be born. These beings were created by me! Why is that? Because first I thought:

“Oh, if only another being would come to this state of existence.” Such was my heart’s wish, and then these creatures came to this state of existence.’

And the beings who were reborn there later also think: ‘This must be Brahmā, the Great Brahmā, the Undefeated, the Champion, the Universal Seer, the Wielder of Power, the Lord God, the Maker, the Author, the First, the Begetter, the Controller, the Father of those who have been born and those yet to be born. And we have been created by him. Why is that? Because we see that he was reborn here first, and we arrived later.’

And the being who was reborn first is more long-lived, beautiful, and illustrious than those who arrived later.

It’s possible that one of those beings passes away from that host and is reborn in this state of existence. Having done so, they go forth from the lay life to homelessness. By dint of keen, resolute, committed, and diligent effort, and right focus, they experience an immersion of the heart of such a kind that they recollect that past life, but no further.

They say: ‘He who is Brahmā—the Great Brahmā, the Undefeated, the Champion, the Universal Seer, the Wielder of Power, the Lord God, the Maker, the Author, the First, the Begetter, the Controller, the Father of those who have been born and those yet to be born—is permanent, everlasting, eternal, imperishable, remaining the same for all eternity. We who were created by that Brahmā are impermanent, not lasting, short-lived, perishable, and have come to this state of existence. This is the first ground on which some ascetics and brahmins rely to assert that the self and the cosmos are partially eternal.
The old testament jealous God who sends plagues, floods etc, could be Mara, or any of the devas, or asuras.

As opposed to Buddhism and Islam who has pretty much clear vision of the original role of the founder of the religion, Jesus was overly deified by later generations, so I am with Islam's view that Jesus was just a prophet, which in Buddhism's view, is explained by DN 1 as above, just another mystic, who might have Jhanas (to see the immediate past lives, or communicate with higher beings), but not stream winners.
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Gwi
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Re: Who/what do you think the Christian god is?

Post by Gwi »

DiamondNgXZ wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:59 am
Gwi wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:32 am
KiwiNFLFan wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:50 pm I'm an ex-Christian who is now a Buddhist. I was involved in all three branches of Christianity over the years - Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant.

I'm curious as to what other Theravada Buddhists think about the god of Christianity. Does he exist?

To recap, the god of Christianity is an insanely jealous being who created two naive humans, put them in a garden with a tree they weren't allowed to eat from, then kicked them out of the garden when they did eat from it, and cursed all their descendants with mortality because of it. In order to reconcile mankind to himself and let them into his presence, he had to become man (Jesus), live a sinless life and be brutally killed as a sacrifice to himself. But only those who believe in Jesus get to be with god after death. All unbelievers will go to hell where they will be tortured forever.

These are the options I can think of:
  • Doesn't exist
  • A hell being
  • A hungry ghost
  • An asura
  • A deva
  • A brahma
  • Sakka (Venerable Hsuan Hua taught that the Christian god was Sakka)
  • None of the above

These 10 questions if answered correctly,
Answered by letting it go:

1. Is the cosmos eternal?
2. Is the cosmos not eternal?
3. Is the world finite?
4. Is the world infinite?
5. Are the soul and the body same thing?
6. Are the soul and the body different things?
7. Does GOD exists?
8. Does GOD not exist?
9. Does GOD both exists and doesn’t exist?
10. Does GOD neither exists nor doesn’t exist?


Out of 10, 100, 1 trillion or more questions,
Ten were answered by letting it be.

Whether god exists or not, and so on,
The most important thing is to study
the contents of the holy book.
Seriously? Which translator mistaken the Tathāgata for God? You might want to recheck the sources of your dhamma for more mistranslation errors.

https://suttacentral.net/mn63/en/bodhi

No. 7- 10 refers to the Buddha, there's no God in Buddhism.
“These speculative views have been left undeclared by the Blessed One, set aside and rejected by him, namely: ‘the world is eternal’ and ‘the world is not eternal’; ‘the world is finite’ and ‘the world is infinite’; ‘the soul is the same as the body’ and ‘the soul is one thing and the body another’; and ‘after death a Tathāgata exists’ and ‘after death a Tathāgata does not exist’ and ‘after death a Tathāgata both exists and does not exist’ and ‘after death a Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist.’

Tathāgatå mean GOD,
King of Dhammå (nickname),
The Ruler of 3 realms.


Definition of god: (1) a single creature at once
(2) worshiped by His people where
The (single) creature does not worship
or pray to anyone (without exception),
on the contrary His people worship Him,
and (3) His words are made into holy verses,
Become holy books (canon).


We never using "god", but Tathāgatå.
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
DiamondNgXZ
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Re: Who/what do you think the Christian god is?

Post by DiamondNgXZ »

Gwi wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:13 am
DiamondNgXZ wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:59 am
Gwi wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:32 am


These 10 questions if answered correctly,
Answered by letting it go:

1. Is the cosmos eternal?
2. Is the cosmos not eternal?
3. Is the world finite?
4. Is the world infinite?
5. Are the soul and the body same thing?
6. Are the soul and the body different things?
7. Does GOD exists?
8. Does GOD not exist?
9. Does GOD both exists and doesn’t exist?
10. Does GOD neither exists nor doesn’t exist?


Out of 10, 100, 1 trillion or more questions,
Ten were answered by letting it be.

Whether god exists or not, and so on,
The most important thing is to study
the contents of the holy book.
Seriously? Which translator mistaken the Tathāgata for God? You might want to recheck the sources of your dhamma for more mistranslation errors.

https://suttacentral.net/mn63/en/bodhi

No. 7- 10 refers to the Buddha, there's no God in Buddhism.
“These speculative views have been left undeclared by the Blessed One, set aside and rejected by him, namely: ‘the world is eternal’ and ‘the world is not eternal’; ‘the world is finite’ and ‘the world is infinite’; ‘the soul is the same as the body’ and ‘the soul is one thing and the body another’; and ‘after death a Tathāgata exists’ and ‘after death a Tathāgata does not exist’ and ‘after death a Tathāgata both exists and does not exist’ and ‘after death a Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist.’

Tathāgatå mean GOD,
King of Dhammå (nickname),
The Ruler of 3 realms.


Definition of god: (1) a single creature at once
(2) worshiped by His people where
The (single) creature does not worship
or pray to anyone (without exception),
on the contrary His people worship Him,
and (3) His words are made into holy verses,
Become holy books (canon).


We never using "god", but Tathāgatå.
There's a whole history of dissociating Buddhism from the terminologies used by Christians. Anyway, in this world, right now, with the largest religious groups being Christians and Muslims, the general public perception of the word God carries a lot of baggage, many of which doesn't describe the Buddha.

The following are some of the baggages in the word God, but it's not an attribute of the Buddha:

1. Creator of the world and humans.
2. Eternal.
3. All powerful.
4. God wills all to happen (predestination).

So you can very well use God to refer to Buddha, but most people will just be mislead by your teaching, then most Buddhists would just say you're teaching wrong views.

Edit add on: Also, the OP is asking for the Christian God in Buddhist context. However, by misusing terminologies, you kinda equated Buddha with the Christian God. That's not how Buddhists view the Christian God. Buddha is not the God of Buddhism, we admit no Christian God in Buddhism.
Last edited by DiamondNgXZ on Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Gwi
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Re: Who/what do you think the Christian god is?

Post by Gwi »

DiamondNgXZ wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:18 am
Gwi wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:13 am
DiamondNgXZ wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:59 am

Seriously? Which translator mistaken the Tathāgata for God? You might want to recheck the sources of your dhamma for more mistranslation errors.

https://suttacentral.net/mn63/en/bodhi

No. 7- 10 refers to the Buddha, there's no God in Buddhism.


Tathāgatå mean GOD,
King of Dhammå (nickname),
The Ruler of 3 realms.


Definition of god: (1) a single creature at once
(2) worshiped by His people where
The (single) creature does not worship
or pray to anyone (without exception),
on the contrary His people worship Him,
and (3) His words are made into holy verses,
Become holy books (canon).


We never using "god", but Tathāgatå.
There's a whole history of dissociating Buddhism from the terminologies used by Christians. Anyway, in this world, right now, with the largest religious groups being Christians and Muslims, the general public perception of the word God carries a lot of baggage, many of which doesn't describe the Buddha.

The following are some of the baggages in the word God, but it's not an attribute of the Buddha:

1. Creator of the world and humans.
2. Eternal.
3. All powerful.
4. God wills all to happen (predestination).

So you can very well use God to refer to Buddha, but most people will just be mislead by your teaching, then most Buddhists would just say you're teaching wrong views.

Thats why ten (questions) were
answered by letting it be.

Whether god exists or not, and so on,
The most important thing is to study
the contents of the holy book.
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
DiamondNgXZ
Posts: 390
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:40 am

Re: Who/what do you think the Christian god is?

Post by DiamondNgXZ »

Gwi wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:26 am
Thats why ten (questions) were
answered by letting it be.

Whether god exists or not, and so on,
The most important thing is to study
the contents of the holy book.
I think you didn't get my message. Here's the edit add on from the last post:

Edit add on: Also, the OP is asking for the Christian God in Buddhist context. However, by misusing terminologies, you kinda equated Buddha with the Christian God. That's not how Buddhists view the Christian God. Buddha is not the God of Buddhism, we admit no Christian God in Buddhism.

The original meaning of no 7-10 when referring to the Buddha is to avoid people having eternalist, or annihilationist view of the self in parinibbana, nothing to do with any notion of monotheistic God.

By misusing terminology, you're mixing up teachings which are not meant to be mixed up.
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Re: Who/what do you think the Christian god is?

Post by Mr. Seek »

The various occult knowledges of the Middle East mixed together, with an added flavour of Mahayana Buddhism.

jesusisbuddha.com
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