What needs to be done so that Theravada is never called Hinayana

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
tamdrin
Posts: 616
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:34 pm
Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand

Re: What needs to be done so that Theravada is never called Hinayana

Post by tamdrin »

Hinayana is a motivation. It means practicing for oneself to attain liberation alone. Mahayana means practicing with the altruistic resolve to become a buddha for the benefit of all beings.
tamdrin
Posts: 616
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:34 pm
Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand

Re: What needs to be done so that Theravada is never called Hinayana

Post by tamdrin »

Germann wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:25 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:56 pm
Theravada cannot be considered Hinayana, because it is not the Teaching of the Buddha.
But Mahāyāna (which one?) is I assume because of their sutras that totally came from the Buddha?
http://palikanon.com/namen/vy/vetullavaada.htm
Theravada does not consider Mahayana the Teaching of the Buddha.

If the Mahayanists find out that Theravada is not the Teaching of the Buddha, according to the Four Seals of the Dharma in the Mahayana, the Mahayanists will not be able to call Theravada the word "Hinayana."


Yes, and Theravada makes bad kamma by dismissing Mahayana.... Many Thai Ajahns know Mahayana is real dhamma and that the great bodhisattvas such as Avalokesvara and Manjushri, who teach it, do exist..
User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 7797
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: What needs to be done so that Theravada is never called Hinayana

Post by Aloka »

tamdrin wrote: Yes, and Theravada makes bad kamma by dismissing Mahayana.... Many Thai Ajahns know Mahayana is real dhamma and that the great bodhisattvas such as Avalokesvara and Manjushri, who teach it, do exist..
Can you provide some evidence that "many Thai Ajahns" believe these Mahayana/Vajrayana deities "do exist", please?

I notice you have taken the name of a wrathful Tibetan deity yourself (which is also known as Hayagriva), by the way:

https://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Hayagriva

On the following website "View on Buddhism," (which appears to be mainly Mahayana/Vajrayana), in the section "THERAVADA AND HINAYANA," it says:
Due to the negative connotation of the term Hinayana, the World Fellowship of Buddhists decided that the term Hinayana should be dropped to refer to Buddhism existing today, and the term Theravada should be applied, also because the term Hinayana has a negative connotation.

http://viewonbuddhism.org/vehicles.html

.
User avatar
Sam Vara
Site Admin
Posts: 13482
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Portsmouth, U.K.

Re: What needs to be done so that Theravada is never called Hinayana

Post by Sam Vara »

Germann wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:03 am
Sam Vara wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:50 pm
Is it because they don't argue that Theravada is called "Hinayana", and besides, they don't care anyway?
Sorry. I used the word unsuccessfully. Of course, Theravadins do not agree that Theravada is Hinayana. The question is why this problem cannot be solved, because the solution is very simple.
A more salient question is why you think this is a problem. Corona virus, global warming, widespread wars, poverty, and the existence of an iron-age term that nobody uses but which might conceivably be considered derogatory by offence-archaeologists with a penchant for philology. :thinking:
User avatar
Sam Vara
Site Admin
Posts: 13482
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Portsmouth, U.K.

Re: What needs to be done so that Theravada is never called Hinayana

Post by Sam Vara »

Germann wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:11 am
Sam Vara wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:50 pm
If the Theravadins inform the Mahayanists of the self-existing dharma, the problem of the erroneous name "Hinayana" will be immediately resolved.
"Nice little lineage you've got here...be a shame if anything happened to it..."
A Mahayanist will not call Hinayana if you tell a Mahayanist about a self-existing dharma. Why can not tell the Mahayanists about this?
Because I've never heard the term outside of abstruse discussions on forums like this; because I'm not aware of it harming people; because even if it were harming people there's no reason to believe in your remedy; because I don't care what names people are called; and even if I did, there's no spokesperson for the whole of Theravada.

So I'll probably get round to doing it, sometime after I've straightened all the pebbles on the beaches, and checked that all the world's animals have got enough to eat.
tamdrin
Posts: 616
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:34 pm
Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand

Re: What needs to be done so that Theravada is never called Hinayana

Post by tamdrin »

Aloka wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:15 am
tamdrin wrote: Yes, and Theravada makes bad kamma by dismissing Mahayana.... Many Thai Ajahns know Mahayana is real dhamma and that the great bodhisattvas such as Avalokesvara and Manjushri, who teach it, do exist..
Can you provide some evidence that "many Thai Ajahns" believe these Mahayana/Vajrayana deities "do exist", please?

I notice you have taken the name of a wrathful Tibetan deity yourself (which is also known as Hayagriva), by the way:

https://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Hayagriva

On the following website "View on Buddhism," (which appears to be mainly Mahayana/Vajrayana), in the section "THERAVADA AND HINAYANA," it says:
Due to the negative connotation of the term Hinayana, the World Fellowship of Buddhists decided that the term Hinayana should be dropped to refer to Buddhism existing today, and the term Theravada should be applied, also because the term Hinayana has a negative connotation.

http://viewonbuddhism.org/vehicles.html

.

Ok, So I know Ajahn Achalo's main teacher Ajahn Anan has said that the great bodhisattvas such as Avalokitesvara and Manjushri, Samantabhadra, etc do exist. There is a talk on youtube where he says this. This, I believe is from his experience in meditation. Not based on blind faith in the textual tradition. That is my hunch. I also asked Ajahn Achalo via e-mail (I've been in recent contact with him) if Ajahn Anan ever said anything about Amitabha's pure land. He responded to my e-mail that according to Ajahn Anan the Amitabha's pure land does exist. I don't think Ajahn Anan teaches anything except Thai forest Theravada tradition so for him to say these things exist is probably, I'm assuming, just an expression of things he realized through deep meditation. So, well it is not many, there are many who know about these things it's just not often talked about unless directly brought up. Now here come those who think there are no truths in the vast universe outside the Pali cannon to come tear me down!
sentinel
Posts: 3236
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm

Re: What needs to be done so that Theravada is never called Hinayana

Post by sentinel »

You always gain by giving
tamdrin
Posts: 616
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:34 pm
Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand

Re: What needs to be done so that Theravada is never called Hinayana

Post by tamdrin »

FWI that guy Tsem Tulku is not the guy you want to look to to get an understanding of Tibetan Buddhism.
User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 7797
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: What needs to be done so that Theravada is never called Hinayana

Post by Aloka »

tamdrin wrote:So, well it is not many
Thank you for being honest!
tamdrin wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:53 am FWI that guy Tsem Tulku is not the guy you want to look to to get an understanding of Tibetan Buddhism.
Totally agree.




.
sentinel
Posts: 3236
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm

Re: What needs to be done so that Theravada is never called Hinayana

Post by sentinel »

tamdrin wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:53 am FWI that guy Tsem Tulku is not the guy you want to look to to get an understanding of Tibetan Buddhism.
Info is about ajahn Thong not tulku .
You always gain by giving
User avatar
Germann
Posts: 463
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:24 pm

Re: What needs to be done so that Theravada is never called Hinayana

Post by Germann »

SteRo wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:06 pmI think there are only some Mahayanists who argue that Therevada would be "Hinayana". This might be because they project what has been said about "Hinayana" on the Theravada. But those who have expounded what is "Hinayana" and what is "Mahayana" have never known Theravada but have been referring to Sarvastivada and others.
Sorry. I misused the English word. Only Mahayanists can call Theravada Hinayana. Theravadins disagree with this.
SteRo wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:06 pmIf self-existent dharma is contrary to the Four Seals of Dharma in the Mahayana then why are there Mahayana teachings claiming self existence of Dharmakaya and other kayas? Why are there Mahayana teachings claiming self existence of pristine cognition?
Dharmakaya does not exist independently, apart from any experience. Nibbana (after the collapse of Khandhas) exists by itself, outside of experience.
User avatar
Germann
Posts: 463
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:24 pm

Re: What needs to be done so that Theravada is never called Hinayana

Post by Germann »

Aloka wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:44 pm Some reading material .....
No Hinayana in Buddhism
By Chan Khoon San and Kare A. Lie
http://www.urbandharma.org/pdf/NoHinayana.pdf

The Hinayana Fallacy
by Bhikkhu Analayo.
http://jocbs.org/index.php/jocbs/article/view/72/92
:anjali:
For Mahayanists, a Buddhist school that practices the Teaching of the Buddha, but denies the Mahayana Sutras, is a Hinayana school. Theravadins deny the Mahayana Sutras, which is why they are considered Hinayana. The Mahayanists do not know, that Theravada teaches self-existing dharma. Mahayanists do not delve deeply into the views of other schools.
User avatar
Germann
Posts: 463
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:24 pm

Re: What needs to be done so that Theravada is never called Hinayana

Post by Germann »

justindesilva wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:20 am
May I know from somebody who called theravada as hinayana and why.
I as a theravada Buddhist never worried about such a thing but I only wanted to understand the damma to escape samsara.
The Mahayanists call any school that studies the Teaching of the Buddha, but denies the Mahayana Sutras, as the Hinayana school. The fact that there is a self-existent dharma in Theravada (this contradicts the Four Seals of the Dharma in the Mahayana), the Mahayanists do not know.
User avatar
Germann
Posts: 463
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:24 pm

Re: What needs to be done so that Theravada is never called Hinayana

Post by Germann »

tamdrin wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:02 am Hinayana is a motivation. It means practicing for oneself to attain liberation alone. Mahayana means practicing with the altruistic resolve to become a buddha for the benefit of all beings.
A school that studies the Teachings of the Buddha but denies The Hinayana Sutras is called the Hinayana school.
User avatar
Germann
Posts: 463
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:24 pm

Re: What needs to be done so that Theravada is never called Hinayana

Post by Germann »

tamdrin wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:05 am
Yes, and Theravada makes bad kamma by dismissing Mahayana.... Many Thai Ajahns know Mahayana is real dhamma and that the great bodhisattvas such as Avalokesvara and Manjushri, who teach it, do exist..
It is not necessary to consider the Thai Sangha as a Theravada school. In the Thai Sangha, there may also be a Mahayana. (This is a special case.)
Post Reply