confusedlayman wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:26 pm
Which brahmin has 2 jhanas?
I was wrong, there are brahmins who practice all 4 jhāna.
https://suttacentral.net/an5.192/en/sujato wrote:
And how is a brahmin equal to a god? Kathañca, doṇa, brāhmaṇo devasamo hoti?
When he has gone forth, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, he enters and remains in the first absorption … second absorption … third absorption … fourth absorption. So evaṃ pabbajito samāno vivicceva kāmehi … pe … catutthaṃ jhānaṃ upasampajja viharati.
Having developed these four absorptions, when the body breaks up, after death, they’re reborn in a good place, a heavenly realm. So ime cattāro jhāne bhāvetvā kāyassa bhedā paraṃ maraṇā sugatiṃ saggaṃ lokaṃ upapajjati.
the mistake i did was how brahmin is equal to brahma
https://suttacentral.net/an3.80/en/sujato wrote:“Doṇa, how is a brahmin equal to Brahmā? “Kathañca, doṇa, brāhmaṇo brahmasamo hoti?
Then they meditate spreading a heart full of love to one direction, and to the second, and to the third, and to the fourth. In the same way above, below, across, everywhere, all around, they spread a heart full of love to the whole world—abundant, expansive, limitless, free of enmity and ill will. So evaṃ pabbajito samāno mettāsahagatena cetasā ekaṃ disaṃ pharitvā viharati, tathā dutiyaṃ tathā tatiyaṃ tathā catutthaṃ, iti uddhamadho tiriyaṃ sabbadhi sabbattatāya sabbāvantaṃ lokaṃ mettāsahagatena cetasā vipulena mahaggatena appamāṇena averena abyāpajjena pharitvā viharati.
They meditate spreading a heart full of compassion … Karuṇā … pe …
rejoicing … muditā …
equanimity to one direction, and to the second, and to the third, and to the fourth. In the same way above, below, across, everywhere, all around, they spread a heart full of equanimity to the whole world—abundant, expansive, limitless, free of enmity and ill will. upekkhāsahagatena cetasā ekaṃ disaṃ pharitvā viharati, tathā dutiyaṃ tathā tatiyaṃ tathā catutthaṃ, iti uddhamadho tiriyaṃ sabbadhi sabbattatāya sabbāvantaṃ lokaṃ upekkhāsahagatena cetasā vipulena mahaggatena appamāṇena averena abyāpajjena pharitvā viharati. Having developed these four Brahmā meditations, when the body breaks up, after death, they’re reborn in a good place, a Brahmā realm. So ime cattāro brahmavihāre bhāvetvā kāyassa bhedā paraṃ maraṇā sugatiṃ brahmalokaṃ upapajjati.
i didn't even notice that the brahmin doesn't become brahma, but goes to the brahma world after break up of the body.
https://suttacentral.net/sn55.54/en/sujato wrote:
‘Good sir, the Brahmā realm is impermanent, not lasting, and included within identity.‘brahmalokopi kho, āvuso, anicco addhuvo sakkāyapariyāpanno.It would be good to turn your mind away from the Brahmā realm and apply it to the cessation of identity.’Sādhāyasmā, brahmalokā cittaṃ vuṭṭhāpetvā sakkāyanirodhe cittaṃ upasaṃharāhī’ti.
it seem jhāna sends you to the
sagga, heavenly world, which seem not belong to jhāna realm.
Whereas Brahmā realm is part of jhāna realm.
So
My bad its prolly only 1st jhāna not 2nd. Also I didn't know that practicing jhāna successfully won't grant you getting into these realms after break up of the body.
and the last quote, sn 55.54, is advice who are gravely ill, so it is interesting in a sense one can direct the mind towards different worlds, and the best is to turn away even from the Brahma realm and destroy identity. <--I assume it is when the body is broken up, one can do it.
Prolly one can't get to higher realms, when only(not removed asavas) practicing jhana while alive, due defilements, corruptions(without other person advice)
https://suttacentral.net/sn55.54/en/sujato wrote:then there is no difference between a lay follower whose mind is freed in this way and a mendicant whose mind is freed from defilements; that is,evaṃ vimuttacittassa kho, mahānāma, upāsakassa āsavā vimuttacittena bhikkhunā na kiñci nānākaraṇaṃ vadāmi, yadidaṃ—between the freedom of one and the other.”vimuttiyā vimuttan”ti.
that above, seem support the death moment advice and one gets liberated. Is equal to someone whos mind is free from defilements