why westerners dont beleive in after life world

[confusedlayman]

many westerns are offsprings of christians and they all thought about heaven and hell many times due to reading bible etc..

why cant they read buddhism with 31 planes and devas, brahmas and mara? why they try to find secular buddhism without myths?

Indians were atheist from long time (charvaka followers) but in western world why they asking secular buddhism? why they dont beleive in buddhas attainment of divine eye?

[DooDoot]

racist question

many westerners believe in afterlife; many western buddhist is more fundamentalist about afterlife than asian

many asians are atheists

divine eye is not related to after life

31 planes and devas, brahmas and mara is not necessarily related to afterlife

buddha defined his dhamma as visible here & now

why u not yet take true refuge?

[confusedlayman]

racist question

many westerners believe in afterlife; many western buddhist is more fundamentalist about afterlife than asian

many asians are atheists

divine eye is not related to after life

31 planes and devas, brahmas and mara is not necessarily related to afterlife

buddha defined his dhamma as visible here & now

why u not yet take true refuge?

its not racist question but a question that arises when westerners subsribe to secular buddhism.

I have taken refuge already see my signature.

31 planes related to after life also, divine eye to see where they reborn after human birth .. please read suttas .

[DooDoot]

westerners subsribe to secular buddhism.

wrong view

I have taken refuge already see my signature.

no. u cannot take refuge in wrong view of dhamma. dhamma refuge is:

sandiṭṭhiko dhammo hoti akāliko ehipassiko opaneyyiko paccattaṃ veditabbo viññūhī

the teaching visible in the here & now, immediately effective, inviting inspection, relevant, so that sensible people can know it for themselves

31 planes related to after life also, divine eye to see where they reborn after human birth ..

no evidence for the above. the sutta say a 'human birth' is mind without greed, hatred & delusion, as follows:

Bhikkhus, a god, a human or any other good state would not be evident from actions born of greed, hate and delusion. Yet, bhikkhus, from actions born of greed, hate and delusion a hellish being, an animal birth a ghostly birth or some other bad state would be evident.

AN 6.39

please read suttas .

slander; hypocrisy; nonsense

[Ceisiwr]

many westerns are offsprings of christians and they all thought about heaven and hell many times due to reading bible etc..

why cant they read buddhism with 31 planes and devas, brahmas and mara? why they try to find secular buddhism without myths?

Indians were atheist from long time (charvaka followers) but in western world why they asking secular buddhism? why they dont beleive in buddhas attainment of divine eye?

Where I live, Wales, most people i've known in my life are non-religous and even anti-religious to some extent. Its quite often that I hear people say that they "believe in science instead". With that being said, you would be amazed at how many of the very same people then say they believe in ghosts or some kind of afterlife. So, whilst not being religious is quite common strict materialism or scepticism is not. Personally it seems to me that many people want the benefits of religion, as in an afterlife, but without having to follow any of the commandments or moral precepts. Why people became non-religous or anti-religious in so many numbers I'm not so sure.

I've also noticed the same phenomenon from people in other parts of the U.K.

[Ceisiwr]

confusedlayman

when westerners subsribe to secular buddhism.

In my experience, 9/10 secular Buddhists are simply left leaning/liberal secular humanists who find themsevles in the awkward position of actually agreeing with a religion.

[Ceisiwr]

confusedlayman

secular buddhism? why they dont beleive in buddhas attainment of divine eye?

From wrong view comes wrong practice and wrong understanding. Secular Buddhists tend to not give up their previously held views of materialism/physicalism, philosophical naturalism or scepticism and fail to realise that the Dhamma actually attacks these positions.

[rhinoceroshorn]

There is a huge Spiritist community in my country. My mother is Spiritist, btw. I think that's why she got interested in Buddhist as I talked to her.
Afaik, they believe in a kind of karma and reincarnation. But even Spiritists believe in a soul. It was difficult to talk to my mother about anatta.

[DooDoot]

fail to realise that the Dhamma actually attacks these positions.

non-sense Dhamma = dhatu = naturalism

[Ceisiwr]

fail to realise that the Dhamma actually attacks these positions.

non-sense Dhamma = dhatu = naturalism

Philosophical naturalism is a type of physicalism, as in materialism.

[DooDoot]

Philosophical naturalism is a type of physicalism, as in materialism.

An equivalent of the word 'materialism' appears not found in the suttas. Also, those that interpret 'jati' as physical birth appear obviously engaged in physicalism/materialism. I suggest to quote sutta rather than manufacture personal imaginary dogma claimed to be Buddha-Dhamma.

[SteRo]

The issue is believing in 'before death world'.

[Ceisiwr]

Philosophical naturalism is a type of physicalism, as in materialism.

An equivalent of the word 'materialism' appears not found in the suttas. Also, those that interpret 'jati' as physical birth appear obviously engaged in physicalism/materialism. I suggest to quote sutta rather than manufacture personal imaginary dogma claimed to be Buddha-Dhamma.

I would say this:

There is no such thing as alms or sacrifice or offering. There is neither fruit nor result of good or evil deeds. A human being is built up of four elements. When he dies the earthly in him returns and relapses to the earth, the fluid to the water, the heat to the fire, the wind to the air, and his faculties pass into space. The four bearers, on the bier as a fifth, take his dead body away; till they reach the burning ground, men utter forth eulogies, but there his bones are bleached, and his offerings end in ashes. It is a doctrine of fools, this talk of gifts. It is an empty lie, mere idle talk, when men say there is profit herein. Fools and wise alike, on the dissolution of the body, are cut off, annihilated, and after death they are not.

is an early materialist doctrine, very similar to Epicurus or Democritus.

[Mr Man]

confusedlayman

when westerners subsribe to secular buddhism.

In my experience, 9/10 secular Buddhists are simply left leaning/liberal secular humanists who find themsevles in the awkward position of actually agreeing with a religion.

Have you ever actually met a secular Buddhist?

And have you ever thought of leaving your political/general bias at the door of this forum. Like taking your shoes off when entering a temple.

[Ceisiwr]

Mr Man

Have you ever actually met a secular Buddhist?

Yes.

And have you ever thought of leaving your political/general bias at the door of this forum. Like taking your shoes off when entering a temple.

Its simply an observation