Dignāga and Dharmakīrti

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Dignāga and Dharmakīrti

Post by Ceisiwr »

Coëmgenu wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:11 pm The way to find out would be to search the text for the quotation in that document. I myself don't have one of these memberships. I might get one eventually, but not now. He might spell "cittamatra" with a hyphen.
You linked the same paper 3 years ago, but you said the translation can’t be found online.

https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/an ... al/7511/14
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Dignāga and Dharmakīrti

Post by Coëmgenu »

Ceisiwr wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:34 pm
Coëmgenu wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:11 pm The way to find out would be to search the text for the quotation in that document. I myself don't have one of these memberships. I might get one eventually, but not now. He might spell "cittamatra" with a hyphen.
You linked the same paper 3 years ago, but you said the translation can’t be found online.

https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/an ... al/7511/14
I would have copied the translation out of the paper, I imagine. So it might be yet another paper. I'm almost sure this is the paper I read, as I can't find any other papers on the Saṁtānāntarasiddhināmaprakaraṇa. I believe the "translation," IIRC, that I was referring to was the translation that the author of the paper did of the whole root text. This paper just has bits, unless I recall incorrectly.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Dignāga and Dharmakīrti

Post by Coëmgenu »

Here is a piece of the quotation:

https://www.academia.edu/12663014/Other ... Philosophy

Look at footnote 24 on page 325.
See for instance Stcherbatsky’s translation (Ibid., p. 86) of su¯tra 78 and 79 (‘‘In inferring the existence of other mind, one is also to take into account the fact that it directs our activity in accordance with the desired aim’’; ‘‘Having known, through this inference, the existence of other mind, the mind as subject successively produces the effects which lead it to the desired aim’’), and of Vinı¯tadeva’s commentary (‘‘When some person, by inferring other mind, recognizes the existence of another person, and undertakes the corresponding actions—strives for them, seeks them, goes here and there—he will, in the ultimate end, attain the aim, for instance, that of talking to this person. An example of such successive purposive activity can be: greeting the other person, inviting him home, then spreading a carpet before him, entertaining him with viands and drinks, preparing his bed, serving water for washing his feet, cleaning and massaging his feet, etc. What more can one mention in support of the fact that
the attainment of the aim is a sufficient ground for accepting inference as the source of
truth?’’).
Is the paper I linked you to also using this Stcherbatsky translation? It's possible I thought the author of whatever paper I was reading had also translated it.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Dignāga and Dharmakīrti

Post by Ceisiwr »

Is the paper I linked you to also using this Stcherbatsky translation?
Yup.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Caodemarte
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Re: Dignāga and Dharmakīrti

Post by Caodemarte »

In addition to any survey of Buddhist philosophy, both Amazon and https://en.m.wikipedia.org has bibliographies for both.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Dignāga and Dharmakīrti

Post by Ceisiwr »

I’ve found a translation of Dignāga’s chapter on perception:

https://www.sjsu.edu/people/anand.vaidy ... nation.pdf

I’m quite attracted to the epistemology, from what I know of it, and am looking to see if it can supplement the Theravadin Abhidhamma. There are however possibly some issues in Dignāga’s thought if he takes sanna to be free from concepts, based on the suttas. Citta might be a more apt dhamma to choose. Inference might also be an issue, if by that he means inductive reasoning.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
SteRo
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Re: Dignāga and Dharmakīrti

Post by SteRo »

Ceisiwr wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:51 am Could anyone point me in the right direction regarding finding an online copy or hard copy of the core works of Dignāga and Dharmakīrti or, at the very least, a good book which discusses and outlines their philosophy in depth?
Their philosophy and logic is a very prominent topic in the tibetan traditions and their monastic education:
Recognizing Reality: Dharmakirti's Philosophy and Its Tibetan Interpretations

But it's also of present day academic interest:
Foundations of Dharmakirti's Philosophy
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Dignāga and Dharmakīrti

Post by Ceisiwr »

SteRo wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:19 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:51 am Could anyone point me in the right direction regarding finding an online copy or hard copy of the core works of Dignāga and Dharmakīrti or, at the very least, a good book which discusses and outlines their philosophy in depth?
Their philosophy and logic is a very prominent topic in the tibetan traditions and their monastic education:
Recognizing Reality: Dharmakirti's Philosophy and Its Tibetan Interpretations

But it's also of present day academic interest:
Foundations of Dharmakirti's Philosophy
Yes I'm aware. Those books are on my to buy list, when my budget allows :)
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Ceisiwr
Posts: 22528
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Dignāga and Dharmakīrti

Post by Ceisiwr »

SteRo wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:19 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:51 am Could anyone point me in the right direction regarding finding an online copy or hard copy of the core works of Dignāga and Dharmakīrti or, at the very least, a good book which discusses and outlines their philosophy in depth?
Their philosophy and logic is a very prominent topic in the tibetan traditions and their monastic education:
Recognizing Reality: Dharmakirti's Philosophy and Its Tibetan Interpretations

But it's also of present day academic interest:
Foundations of Dharmakirti's Philosophy
It would be nice to see the original texts, but it seems not full English translation has been done and I'm not going to learn Tibetan.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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