Can other religions contain eightfold path?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
SarathW
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Re: Can other religions contain eightfold path?

Post by SarathW »

Agree.
All view has to be abandoned after realising Nibbana as per Theravada teaching.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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confusedlayman
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Re: Can other religions contain eightfold path?

Post by confusedlayman »

Crazy cloud wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:30 am
confusedlayman wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:07 am Concious come n go .. how can it be refuge?
Sometimes people arise in consciousness and sometimes consciousness arise in people. But have you ever experienced anything outside of consciousness? Where if not in conciousness is refuge to be found?

People come and go in conciousness.
when u can see cessastion of conciousness what is there to take refuge?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Can other religions contain eightfold path?

Post by Mahabrahma »

confusedlayman wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:35 am
Crazy cloud wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:30 am
confusedlayman wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:07 am Concious come n go .. how can it be refuge?
Sometimes people arise in consciousness and sometimes consciousness arise in people. But have you ever experienced anything outside of consciousness? Where if not in conciousness is refuge to be found?

People come and go in conciousness.
when u can see cessastion of conciousness what is there to take refuge?
After the full cessation of material consciousness in Nirvana, Spiritual practice is perfected and there is Enlightenment, in Arhatship or Buddhahood real Spiritual life begins.
That sage who has perfect insight,
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.

-Dhammapada.
Pulsar
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Re: Can other religions contain eightfold path?

Post by Pulsar »

Chownah wrote
all views are to be abandoned
Exactly, Pulsar agrees 100%. Is not that how Buddha begins the 8-fold path?. I don't know other paths...
Some say there are other paths that liberate
But this is also a view.
Somewhere someone wrote on this thread recently regarding Right view, was it SarathW? not sure
And what comes before right view? My guess is that that which comes before right view is more true than anybody's right view ...
Your right view is merely a point of view, and are as right or wrong as anybody else's points of view.
that each one has their own right view?
Now according to Buddha that would be a joke, but invariably according to other paths
this is not a joke. In Buddha's world,
  • Right view is about giving up all views,
One has to cycle eight fold path a trillion times to fineness it, and then drag in the last two steps of the 10-fold path to accomplish that feat, right knowledge and
right liberation. MN 117
It is only at right liberation, that one is liberated from all views.
Some folks get killed by their views, since they hang on to them so hard, thinking
that their view will drag them to Nibbana, or to end of suffering.
Enlightenment is nothing else but the end of suffering.
There is something about you that I really like, it is a sheer intelligence that comes across in the
things you say and how you say them. in other words what I am saying is 'Your views
are worth listening to'
, it puts me in a nice frame of mind.
Unless one is cheerful, one cannot maintain the factors of 8-fold path, which is
essential for daily living in this path I follow.
With love :candle:
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Can other religions contain eightfold path?

Post by Mahabrahma »

Well someone might hear "Love the Lord thy God with all your heart, strength, Soul and mind" and "Love thy neighbor as thyself" and instantly attain a state of Samadhi, absorption in Divine Trance and come to the realizations of the Noble Eightfold Path based on that goodness. We are living beings with the potential for Buddhahood, hence the possibility of full Realization, especially coming from something good, is always there.
That sage who has perfect insight,
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.

-Dhammapada.
chownah
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Re: Can other religions contain eightfold path?

Post by chownah »

Sorry,but I made a mistake that I think should be corrected. I posted this:
This thread is titled "Can other religions contain eightfold path?".......I brought a sutta reference where the buddha talks about the possibility of the Noble Eightfold path being found in some religion (dhamma and discipline) presumably other than his own....and notice that he does not require DO and nibbana come along for the ride. To me this is a strong indication that the eightfold path can be found in religions other than buddhism. If the buddha was of the view that it was impossible for the eightfold path to be contained in some other religion I don't think that he would have suggested the impossible but this is just my view.....other people have other views....all views are to be abandoned I think....
The mistake is the "can"....please replace it with "could possibly"......so it reads "To me this is a strong indication that the eightfold path could possibly be found in religions other than buddhism."
Sorry for the disruption,
chownah
P.S. Since the Eight Strndd Flying Sphgtti Mnster religion has incorporated all of the theravada scriptures which are pertinent to the eightfold path it serves as the living proof that in fact the eightfold path DOES exist in a religion other than buddhism.
chownah
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DNS
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Re: Can other religions contain eightfold path?

Post by DNS »

chownah wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:09 pm Sorry,but I made a mistake that I think should be corrected. I posted this:
This thread is titled "Can other religions contain eightfold path?".......I brought a sutta reference where the buddha talks about the possibility of the Noble Eightfold path being found in some religion (dhamma and discipline) presumably other than his own....and notice that he does not require DO and nibbana come along for the ride. To me this is a strong indication that the eightfold path can be found in religions other than buddhism. If the buddha was of the view that it was impossible for the eightfold path to be contained in some other religion I don't think that he would have suggested the impossible but this is just my view.....other people have other views....all views are to be abandoned I think....
The mistake is the "can"....please replace it with "could possibly"......so it reads "To me this is a strong indication that the eightfold path could possibly be found in religions other than buddhism."
Sorry for the disruption,
chownah
P.S. Since the Eight Strndd Flying Sphgtti Mnster religion has incorporated all of the theravada scriptures which are pertinent to the eightfold path it serves as the living proof that in fact the eightfold path DOES exist in a religion other than buddhism.
chownah
Correct and this is what I noted way back on page one. Theoretically another religion(s) could have the Noble Eightfold Path. It might be called something else, but as the saying goes, "a rose by any other name would smell as sweet." In reality though, no other religion has the Noble Eightfold Path.

And contrary to Sarath's numerous posts, very few other religions even have an Eightfold Path. Perhaps just Patanjali's yoga sutras and the FSM and maybe one or two others, but that's it. No other religion has the Noble Eightfold Path other than Buddhism. Very few even have an 8 limbed path to describe their main doctrine.

The FSM really does have an eightfold path!!
1. I’d really rather you didn’t act like a sanctimonious, holier-than-thou ass when describing my Noodly Goodness. If some people don’t believe in me, that’s okay. Really, I’m not that vain. Besides, this isn’t about them so don’t change the subject.

2. I’d really rather you didn’t use my existence as a means to oppress, subjugate, punish, eviscerate, and/or, you know, be mean to others. I don’t require sacrifices and purity is for drinking water, not people.

3. I’d really rather you didn’t judge people for the way they look, or how they dress, or the way they talk, or, well, just play nice, okay? Oh, and get this in your thick heads: woman = person. Man = person. Samey-samey. One is not better than the other, unless we’re talking about fashion and I’m sorry, but I gave that to women and some guys who know the difference between teal and fuchsia.

4. I’d really rather you didn’t indulge in conduct that offends yourself, or your willing, consenting partner of legal age and mental maturity. As for anyone who might object, I think the expression is go f*** yourself, unless they find that offensive in which case they can turn off the TV for once and go for a walk for a change.

5. I’d really rather you didn’t challenge the bigoted, misogynist, hateful ideas of others on an empty stomach. Eat, then go after the b******.

6. I’d really rather you didn’t build multimillion-dollar churches / temples / mosques / shrines to my Noodly Goodness when the money could be better spent (take your pick):
a. Ending poverty
b. Curing diseases
c. Living in peace, loving with passion, and lowering the cost of cable
I might be a complex-carbohydrate omniscient being, but I enjoy the simple things in life. I ought to know. I am the creator.

7. I’d really rather you didn’t go around telling people I talk to you. You’re not that interesting. Get over yourself. And I told you to love your fellow man, can’t you take a hint?

8. I’d really rather you didn’t do unto others as you would have them do unto you if you are into, um, stuff that uses a lot of leather / lubricant / lass Vegas. If the other person is into it, however (pursuant to #4), then have at it, take pictures, and for the love of mike, wear a condom! Honestly, it’s a piece of rubber. If I didn’t want it to feel good when you did it I would have added spikes, or something.

https://pastafarians.org.au/tenets/
Pulsar
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Re: Can other religions contain eightfold path?

Post by Pulsar »

Chownah wrote
P.S. Since the Eight Strndd Flying Sphgtti Mnster religion has incorporated all of the theravada scriptures which are pertinent to the eightfold path it serves as the living proof that in fact the eightfold path DOES exist in a religion other than buddhism
Thanks for the correction, as a result of your correction, and due to the incredible force of that correction, I just changed my allegiance from the old boring really hard Theravada path, to the religion that contains
Eight Strndd Flying Sphgtti Mnster religion.
Besides you informed me it has incorporated all of the Theravada scriptures which are pertinent to the eightfold path it serves as the living proof that in fact the eightfold path DOES exist in a religion other than buddhism.
However is this as hard and difficult to negotiate as modern Theravada? that does not rely on commentaries? but just the teachings of the Buddha?
I just noticed that at Sutta central Ven. Sujatho was trying to show that Vipassana-vada was not a teaching of the Buddha, and the Burmese monks are fighting him tooth and nail. It is fun to watch that.
Do you think we can call Vipassana-vada a "Connection to other paths?"
Sorry if the last bit about Sujatho is off topic, But I just adore him, could not help
bringing him in to the discussion.
With love of all the Sphgtti Mnsters of the world. :candle:
Pulsar
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Re: Can other religions contain eightfold path?

Post by Pulsar »

DNS wrote
I’d really rather you didn’t do unto others as you would have them do unto you if you are into, um, stuff that uses a lot of leather / lubricant / lass Vegas. If the other person is into it, however (pursuant to #4), then have at it, take pictures, and for the love of mike, wear a condom! Honestly, it’s a piece of rubber. If I didn’t want it to feel good when you did it I would have added spikes, or something.
Of course not his original thought, he is not that original even though he owns the site, for which I am thankful.
Connections to Other Paths is the go to place on DW.
I highly recommend it.
With love :candle:
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DNS
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Re: Can other religions contain eightfold path?

Post by DNS »

Pulsar wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:43 pm DNS wrote
I’d really rather you didn’t do unto others as you would have them do unto you if you are into, um, stuff that uses a lot of leather / lubricant / lass Vegas. If the other person is into it, however (pursuant to #4), then have at it, take pictures, and for the love of mike, wear a condom! Honestly, it’s a piece of rubber. If I didn’t want it to feel good when you did it I would have added spikes, or something.
Of course not his original thought, he is not that original even though he owns the site, for which I am thankful.
Connections to Other Paths is the go to place on DW.
I highly recommend it.
With love :candle:
Just to note, that quote is from the FSM page, not my words, which I think you are saying too, just want to make sure that is known and clarified.
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StrivingforMonkhood
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Re: Can other religions contain eightfold path?

Post by StrivingforMonkhood »

SarathW wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:45 amWhat is your definition of enlightenment?
Seeing emptiness directly built on a foundation of morality and non-clinging. This is what brings genuine enlightenment.

My point was that the mystical "pure consciousness" state of Advaita Vedanta could be what the Buddhist refer to as "seeing emptiness directly." I'm not pulling this out of thin air. There are articles written on this. If you want to read any, I can give you the links.

What I am saying is not being said with 100% certainty - just my opinion. :namaste:

Please take care.
May we all fulfill our deepest wish for happiness

We are already Buddha
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StrivingforMonkhood
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Re: Can other religions contain eightfold path?

Post by StrivingforMonkhood »

Mahabrahma wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:07 am Well someone might hear "Love the Lord thy God with all your heart, strength, Soul and mind" and "Love thy neighbor as thyself" and instantly attain a state of Samadhi, absorption in Divine Trance and come to the realizations of the Noble Eightfold Path based on that goodness. We are living beings with the potential for Buddhahood, hence the possibility of full Realization, especially coming from something good, is always there.
Yes, friend, that is very true.

As I said, we can build a moral foundation from Western religions (if morality is taught correctly). But we don't need religion to be moral. They are completely separate. I made an exception for Advaita Vedanta in yogic traditions.

I don't see where the paths of most world religions, however, bring us definitive happiness. They're based on delusions.

Buddhism is based on what we know from experience. The purpose is to free us from delusions about ultimate reality. And, in doing so, we become liberated from all suffering. The Buddha himself told us not to believe blindly in what he said, but to listen to his teachings and found out the truth for yourself.
May we all fulfill our deepest wish for happiness

We are already Buddha
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StrivingforMonkhood
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Re: Can other religions contain eightfold path?

Post by StrivingforMonkhood »

confusedlayman wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:07 amConcious come n go .. how can it be refuge?
I'm not sure you can really destroy pure consciousness, or break it down into aggregates. Maybe quantum physics say otherwise. I do not know.

I was just making the point that Advaita Vedanta yogi school and Buddhism may have major overlap, and this may be to the point that that they are getting to one-in-the-same idea. They are dressed up differently somehow.

:namaste:
May we all fulfill our deepest wish for happiness

We are already Buddha
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confusedlayman
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Re: Can other religions contain eightfold path?

Post by confusedlayman »

StrivingforMonkhood wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:35 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:07 amConcious come n go .. how can it be refuge?
I'm not sure you can really destroy pure consciousness, or break it down into aggregates. Maybe quantum physics say otherwise. I do not know.

I was just making the point that Advaita Vedanta yogi school and Buddhism may have major overlap, and this may be to the point that that they are getting to one-in-the-same idea. They are dressed up differently somehow.

:namaste:
What u mean by pure conciiusness and impure one? If pure conciousness exist all time why there is impure one? Conciiusness is due to cause n condition, hence it can cease without reminder
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Can other religions contain eightfold path?

Post by Coëmgenu »

confusedlayman wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:37 pm
StrivingforMonkhood wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:35 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:07 amConcious come n go .. how can it be refuge?
I'm not sure you can really destroy pure consciousness, or break it down into aggregates. Maybe quantum physics say otherwise. I do not know.

I was just making the point that Advaita Vedanta yogi school and Buddhism may have major overlap, and this may be to the point that that they are getting to one-in-the-same idea. They are dressed up differently somehow.

:namaste:
What u mean by pure conciiusness and impure one? If pure conciousness exist all time why there is impure one? Conciiusness is due to cause n condition, hence it can cease without reminder
I don't want to answer for StrivingforMonkhood, but I want to guess that he's speaking of the pure citta that Venerable Ñāṇasampanno (Maha Bua) speaks of in his teachings.

Am I off-base?
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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